Cold air intakes Reply #105 – October 04, 2014, 06:16:19 PM I did adjust the idle screw with the IAC unplugged. It's the only way to do it correctly. The IAC is functioning as disconnecting it causes the idle to drop. Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #106 – October 04, 2014, 06:34:31 PM Quote from: thunderjet302;438662I did adjust the idle screw with the IAC unplugged. It's the only way to do it correctly. The IAC is functioning as disconnecting it causes the idle to drop.Do you have 600/625rpms with the IAC connected or not? You should have that idle without IAC, so that there is sufficient headroom for getting up to 800rpms. When the MAF and TPS are in a failed state, the EEC will use the IAC to reach a 800rpm idle. If idle is setup correctly, it should have no problem adding that extra 200rpms, plus a little more. Max drive rpm is 824.Just FYI. Now that we're completely off topic... Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #107 – October 04, 2014, 07:29:35 PM Quote from: Seek;438663Do you have 600/625rpms with the IAC connected or not? You should have that idle without IAC, so that there is sufficient headroom for getting up to 800rpms. When the MAF and TPS are in a failed state, the EEC will use the IAC to reach a 800rpm idle. If idle is setup correctly, it should have no problem adding that extra 200rpms, plus a little more. Max drive rpm is 824.Just FYI. Now that we're completely off topic... Idle is 600rpm in park, 575rpm in drive IAC disconnected. With IAC connected it's 625rpm in park, 600rpm in drive. IAC is functioning properly, verified by a tach/dwell meter. Back on topic a bit . What MAF are you running? I've obviously got a 76mm C&L MAF but I've been considering switching to a 80mm PMAS MAF before I attempt to Dyno tune the car. That or a 90mm Lightning MAF. Both are more accurate than the C&L. Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #108 – October 04, 2014, 08:10:54 PM Quote from: thunderjet302;438664Idle is 600rpm in park, 575rpm in drive IAC disconnected. With IAC connected it's 625rpm in park, 600rpm in drive. IAC is functioning properly, verified by a tach/dwell meter. Back on topic a bit . What MAF are you running? I've obviously got a 76mm C&L MAF but I've been considering switching to a 80mm PMAS MAF before I attempt to Dyno tune the car. That or a 90mm Lightning MAF. Both are more accurate than the C&L.I have a 75mm pro-m unit. I am swapping over to a second-gen LMAF when I drop in the 30lb injectors, and re-tune. Drive-ability seems improved from what I've read. The only issue is moving up to larger 4" intake piping - gathering the parts and making it work with the stock airbox. Obviously, modification to the airbox is needed. Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #109 – October 04, 2014, 10:45:42 PM The opening on the stock air box is 3.5 inches, which is 88.9mm. It's only 1.1mm smaller than the Liightning MAF. I don't think the 1.1mm would make a huge difference. 3.5 inch or larger piping behind the MAF should be fine. I'd be more worried about the stock size air filter being somewhat of a restriction. Maybe? At this point I'm not sure. Someone needs to dyno all these combos. Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #110 – October 05, 2014, 02:30:55 AM Quote from: thunderjet302;438674The opening on the stock air box is 3.5 inches, which is 88.9mm. It's only 1.1mm smaller than the Liightning MAF. I don't think the 1.1mm would make a huge difference. 3.5 inch or larger piping behind the MAF should be fine. I'd be more worried about the stock size air filter being somewhat of a restriction. Maybe? At this point I'm not sure. Someone needs to dyno all these combos.I'll have to measure again, but I think some measurement is really close to 4". Whatever intake piping I go with, I will be making sure that there is as little turbulence as possible around the MAF sensor.The stock airbox/filter will be fine. Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #111 – October 05, 2014, 11:23:59 AM Quote from: thunderjet302;438651Can you get traction from a stop in 1st gear when it's wet outside? The couple of times I've been caught in the rain with the Thunderbird 1st gear was useless from a stop. I had to start in 2nd gear to get any traction. I tried to pass someone when traveling 45mph in the rain and the 4-2 down shift at 3/4 throttle sent the car sideways. Scared the out of me.No. I have ease into it gently. Rain means I never go more than about 1/3 throttle. Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #112 – October 05, 2014, 02:08:30 PM Quote from: V8Demon;438698No. I have ease into it gently. Rain means I never go more than about 1/3 throttle.I can't even use that much throttle in 1st. You've got better tires than I do. Or at least stickier. Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #113 – October 05, 2014, 10:22:06 PM Quote from: Seek;438638Just curious - back when my car was my daily and still had gt40p heads, HO cam, 3.55 gears, 4r70w with stock 12" converter, and sitting on a set of $700 225/60/R16 tires (not cheap junk), I had no problems breaking traction at 40mph - in the summer. It would not stick again unless I let off the throttle. I could never go WOT in traffic due to his persistent problem. My witness was the person I used to carpool with everyday. I'd think you'd have a much easier time breaking traction with the mods in your sig?Also, yeah - the mass air sensor will not read correctly unless it gets steady airflow through it - turbulence completely throws things like that off.Quote from: thunderjet302;438650When I say boot it I mean press the throttle half way down and hold it there. Floor it means full throttle, at least in my mixed up definition .When I had GT40P heads no way was the car breaking traction at 40mph. A full throttle down shift from 4-2 at 40mph would bark the tires. Now a 4-2 full throttle down shift at 40mph barks the tires and there is a slight bit of wheel spin. It's not loosing so much traction at 40mph that it just spins. Heck even my Mustang with 305hp and 3.31 gears doesn't spin the tires at 40mph. Maybe you guys have slicker streets in the Pacific Northwest? You guys do have quite a bit more rain/humidity than we do. Perhaps it does something to the pavement? All the winter salt here makes our pavement rough as hell.Apparently I was wrong. It was 60* and sunny today so I took the Thunderbird out for a ride. I put the pedal to the floor while rolling along at 40mph. Sure enough it broke traction and swayed back and forth slightly till I let off the throttle. Anything less than 3/4 throttle wasn't a problem. I think it has to do with the temperature of the asphalt. In the summer (when I mostly drive the car) 80* plus temperatures and the sun more than likely make the road much stickier than a sunny 60* fall day. Plus I normally don't go wot at 40mph. I don't need that much power to pass at that speed. Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #114 – October 09, 2014, 05:58:21 PM This is more for me and Paul but I have a theory about using the March air box with a filter bolted to the end of a 76mm C&L MAF:The C&L MAF design is based on flow bench testing. So when they came up with the calibration for the 76mm MAF with 24lb injectors and the stock air box they flowed it. Same thing with the 76mm MAF and a conical filter mounted on the end of the MAF. In that case it was an open, exposed filter. So by putting the conical filter in the March air box I wonder if the "calibration" has been messed with? Since the filter can only draw air from the fender opening air is entering the filter only from the side by the fender. I'm actually wondering if building a shield that covers the rear of the filter and the side next to the engine while leaving the area next to the fender opening and behind the headlight open may improve performance? Since the filter would be able to draw air from all sides it *may* be a better setup than the March box. The newer (S197) Mustang "cold air" kits use a conical filter mounted in a large box where the filter has unrestricted 360* air access. In the March box the filter can only draw air from one side. I'm thinking a shield with some foam to seal it to the hood might be a better idea. Something like the picture I've attached. Now I just need to figure out how to re-create that design. Perhaps a plastic box trimmed down to fit? Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #115 – October 09, 2014, 06:30:20 PM Quote from: thunderjet302;438714Apparently I was wrong. It was 60* and sunny today so I took the Thunderbird out for a ride. I put the pedal to the floor while rolling along at 40mph. Sure enough it broke traction and swayed back and forth slightly till I let off the throttle. Anything less than 3/4 throttle wasn't a problem. I think it has to do with the temperature of the asphalt. In the summer (when I mostly drive the car) 80* plus temperatures and the sun more than likely make the road much stickier than a sunny 60* fall day. Plus I normally don't go wot at 40mph. I don't need that much power to pass at that speed.That is the ONLY time I really "need" that much power. I was fine with 155hp as a new driver, until I drove out to the coast. One lane each direction, slow trucks, lots of cars backed up behind them. Passing means getting up to speed quickly in oncoming traffic to pass and get back into the proper lane. Yes, a lot of other safety issues to be concerned with, but stock power was insufficient for even passing a single trailer. I spent a lot of time waiting for "passing lanes", going 30-40mph in a 55.40mph passing has its place Of course, even a stock HO motor had a lot more passing capability than the restricted SO motor. As people go 400hp+, it's all for giggles. Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #116 – October 09, 2014, 10:03:17 PM Quote from: Seek;43888140mph passing has its place Is your AOD giving you 2nd gear when you go to pass @ 40? Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #117 – October 09, 2014, 10:42:43 PM Quote from: V8Demon;438887Is your AOD giving you 2nd gear when you go to pass @ 40?4r70w. 5000 shift point shifts to second at the following speeds, based on the rearend ratios:2.73: 51.27mph3.08: 45.45mph3.27: 42.80mph3.55: 39.43mph6000rpm shift point is the following:2.73: 61.53mph3.08: 54.53mph3.27: 51.37mph3.55: 47.31mphAbove is a couple graphs pulled out of an Excel document I made years ago. They show shift points, speed, and gearing multiplication. Spent forever in Excel to calculate mechanical advantage at different speeds, in different gears, with different rear axle ratios, different tire sizes, and estimated fuel economy differences. It made me go with 3.08 rearend gears at the time. I tried to also do acceleration calculations, ignoring traction, with a fixed input torque value, but it got a bit complicated - I gave up.Anyway, the above graphs show when certain gears need to shift, and at that point, numerically lower rearend gear ratios provide higher power for a bit longer. If you design around one or more specific passing speeds, you can best take advantage of the gear ratios in a vehicle. Above you can see how 2.73's are faster than 3.55's in between 41 and 61mph, when using a 6k shift point. With a 5k shift point (12" converter safe range), the 2.73's are faster in between 39-51mph. The above figures assume 2.83 1st gear and 1.55 second (4r70w's wide ratios).Of course, with the electronic transmission and controller, I can program any behavior I want. The cable actuated AOD will shift all over the place depending on the vehicle. Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #118 – October 09, 2014, 11:05:00 PM Quote from: V8Demon;438887Is your AOD giving you 2nd gear when you go to pass @ 40?Going to say his car has a 4R70W.The AOD in my car will do a 4-2 downshift at 40mph with a little over 1/2 throttle. I usually just keep it there and it gets to 55mph pretty quickly. Quote Selected
Cold air intakes Reply #119 – October 10, 2014, 01:59:40 AM Oh, yeah. When at 40mph, if I floor it, it goes down into 1st for a split second. Never any traction, and the 1-2 shift also has no traction. I have 3.08's right now. Going to reinstall 3.55's in a bit - after the car can move itself again.I don't remember what tires I have. They are basically new, but 3-years old at this point. Pretty soft rubber though. Quote Selected
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