Timing a possessed Cougar.

Topic: Timing a possessed Cougar. (Read 13067 times) previous topic - next topic

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #105 – November 25, 2012, 05:24:05 PM

Quote from: 86cougar;403229

I sure hope I get this picture attachments SOON! I have the link attached with a 10 amp. fuse, and the relay disconnected.

WHY ARE YOU SHOWING US A SLANT SIX. I already know what they look like. I have worked on a hundred of them in my career. OK IT IS A SLANT SIX... NOW WHAT????????????????????????????????????????

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #106 – November 25, 2012, 05:36:36 PM

Quote from: TOM Renzo;403241

WHY ARE YOU SHOWING US A SLANT SIX. I already know what they look like. I have worked on a hundred of them in my career. OK IT IS A SLANT SIX... NOW WHAT????????????????????????????????????????

In some sort of a-body chrysler product no less... looks like some variant of the Valiant.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #107 – November 25, 2012, 05:43:06 PM

Ok, Here we go...
With the link attached through your fuse, and the relay pulled, you turn on the key and...

The fuse blows, or does not blow?

We're going to start at the site of the EEC power relay. Use the test light.
I want to know:
is there power at the relay connector on the Black/Orange wire? (clip to ground, probe to connector terminal)
is there Voltage drop at the same location? (clip to hot, probe to Black/Orange connector terminal)

Describe the behavior of the test light in these 2 tests.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #108 – November 25, 2012, 05:57:55 PM

Crazy88 i agree 100% but clearly he knows how to post photos??? So the Question is WHAT THE HELL DOES HE WANT!!!!! We told him 3BILLION TIMES HOW TO RUN DOWN A SHORT. Maybe he wants us to see a slant SIX> I WILL PASS ON THIS ONE!!!! SEEN MANY IN THE DAY!!!!!

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #109 – November 25, 2012, 06:55:03 PM

I hooked up the light to ground and to the relay and before I even turned the switch on to "run" it lit up bright. I turned it to "run" and it stayed on bright. I then hooked it up to the opposite side of the connector on the relay swicth and it did NOT light up and the fuse is still good. Wish I could figure out how to get rid of that last attachment!

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #110 – November 25, 2012, 07:20:34 PM

OF COURSE IT IS LIT UP. You just tested the fuse LINK!!!!! That one is OK. D'OH!!!! And going to the opposite side it does not light up. First off you dont have the relay in and second if you did you have not commanded it on . The ECM commands the thing on, So the wiring is OK to the relay feed non switched punching. This proves the wire is not grounded. Now plug the relay in and key the car. If the fuse pops you found your ground!!! It is after the relay. And that relay feeds quite a lot of stuff. Injectors ECM and a fiew other sensors. SO PULL THE PRINTS AND START UNPLUGGING THEM TILL THE FUSE NO LONGER BLOWS. simple!!! But i knew this 100 Posts back!!! NO SES LIGHT WHEN KEYED NO EEC VOLTAGE!!!

NOTE that relay is fed direct battery from the fuse link. Do you understand this ????

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #111 – November 25, 2012, 07:35:29 PM

Here is what it feeds

1 ECM
2 INJ BANK 1
3 INJ BANK 2
4 FP RELAY
5 CAN PURGE
6 EGR SOLENOID
7 IAC
8 Air pump 1&2 Forgot it was late.

I have a feeling something is grounded on or near the engine. As you been messing around their for months. Their is a main connector that feeds those circuits you have to disconnect it to isolate the short. Not sure if that car has a salt and pepper

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #112 – November 25, 2012, 08:03:07 PM

Down circuit of the eec relay are the injectors, the air pump solenoids, the egr solenoid, the canister purge solenoid, obviously the EEC, and the fuel pump relay and the Wide-Open Throttle Cut-Out relay. The IAC is not down circuit of the EEC Relay in this vehicle.

I want you to key off, reinstall the EEC relay. Then: disconnect the salt and pepper shakers (do you know what those are?), Key on, and what happens to the fuse?

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #113 – November 25, 2012, 10:37:22 PM

TFYK,
They must be the two connectors attached to the upper intake manifold. I will do first thing in the morning and get back with you. Thanks!

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #114 – November 25, 2012, 11:15:52 PM

Thats right. Disconnecting them will disconnect the injectors, but be careful, they're know to become brittle with age. Disconnect them, and the 2 air pump solenoids, and the egr solenoid. Google them if you need to know what they look like. Once you're ready, cycle the key on and see if your link blows.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #115 – November 26, 2012, 12:58:53 AM

i mentioned isolating the salt & pepper shakers already,, good to see this coming back.

86~NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH HERE,,,,,,,,,,,,,, has anyone to your knowledge and dont be bashful to say yes even if its you..... Has anyone tried to power up the fuel pump relay in any way to help troubleshoot the issues(s)?

what i mean is , has anyone forced power onto the fuel pump relay?

keep troubleshooting, also follow my last step by step test along with what Foe is saying.

Tom is right and has the better approach, although i use an ohm meter many times and its technically the best way to find shorts to ground, you can only really do this the best way with all fuses out.

If you have continuity from the fuse link wiring directly to chassis ground,, then doing a wiggle test is good. If your meter has a setting called Diode check which allows the meter to BEEP when you have continuity, then you can do as tom said and do a wiggle test on the wire.

lets say your find that you have continuity of some value from that fuse link to ground, put the meter to audible "BEEP" diode check and leave it beeping away... now wiggle that harness until the meter starts getting intermittant or the beep goes away. Just as mentioned with a test light, the bulb would also act intermittant as well.

when i fiddle with dead shorts to ground, i would rather not have power on the circuit im working on for many reasons... but thats just the avionics tech in me coming out.

seriously though, that slant six stuff you posted at first bout blew me out of the water,,,, i was not fully functional after i saw the pics but then i remembered you said you woudl have to figure out how to post pics. lets see about getting on point with Foe's step by step if you want, either way i will back off for a moment so you dont have 7 different people telling you to do things,, unless that is if you choose to go back and test some things advised,,, thats fine as as well.

to me, its most important to have a matching wiring diagrams... In my honest and most professional opinion, (((THIS))) is the very first thing you need or else you will be chasing baloons.

Why is it your not able to match up your wiring diagrams is beyond me so double check....

pull up my 87 evtm diagrams and then see if they match up better.

perhaps your earlier point to having "early 86" wiring and how it surprised softtouch may have some validity. If you stump softtouch, your doing something!!!!

by the way, we are actually having a little bit too much fun here, everyones still going to help you either way,, think of it like big brothers in a garage and eventually one of them is gonna have a bigger dick than the other..... : )
Around here, if it cant be done im my garage, then it cant be done!! Im confident in myself and certainly its obvious your surrounded by a lot of type A personalities,,, yep thats me. Keep this simple man, make the fuse blow then figure out what you do that makes it **not blow** and let that part be known.

me personally, i worry your schematics are still not good nuff for what your doing... hope you can fix that or find the closest match.
ping softtouch when you can about this issue because a guy "ERIC" may want to record this special information in his "coolcats" site,, it would be a note worthy special bunch of data for the 86 car.

i have a couple reasons to say this and the first one i can think of is a thread about 3 years ago on a turbo coupe which was an 86 and a simple 3g upgrade caused this guys car to burn to the ground,, we as a whole team and as well all the panel of experts have yet to this day figure out what happened,, caused me to revise my turbocoupe 3g wiring insturction sticky as well because those Ammeters are / have been goofy ,, as you mention your year car and you happen to mention someone telling you updated info in thier opinion about the Ammeter makes me worry even more.

get the ammeter out / off the circut if your questioning it,,,

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #116 – November 26, 2012, 05:14:16 AM

FOE i just pulled the print on this car and it clearly shows the IAC in that circuit as most all of them i work on have the clamping diode and feeds 37-57. Either way i dont see what you posted that for. The print does not lie. If we are going to nit pick between our selves this guy is in way to deep already. So i used a print for an 86 with a 302, If this is wrong i checked back and forward and they show the same thing. As far as i know all 12 Volt supplied battery's in the Power train running gear is powered up by the EEC.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #117 – November 26, 2012, 05:17:33 AM

The IAC is not down circuit of the EEC Relay in this vehicle.

SHOW ME?????

I left out the air pump 1&2 Sorry. But at this point who cares!!!!

I checked this out in 8 places and went with several prints around his years.

OK FOE HERE IT IS. All 12 volt devices are powered through the EEC relay (power train distribution). I am shocked you did not know that????

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #118 – November 26, 2012, 07:39:35 AM

Went back to my diagram, and after closer inspection I believe it to be wrong, so my bad. Regardless, if he disconnects the salt and pepper (C475 and C477), as a couple of us have said, the IAC will still be disconnected.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #119 – November 26, 2012, 10:00:18 AM

jcassity,
I knew a lot of you guys saw what was going on. Sure, I get tired of getting bashed very time I ask a question, but it's always by the same person (the head rooster). Sad thing is the guy's got a lot of good information and can be very helpful.... Enough said, I doubt that any one has forced power to the fuel pump relay, but with a 26 year old car who knows. I really like the way TFYK is instructing this process. It took me a while to figure out the deal with the pictures, but I knew I needed to give you guy's more to work with. Thanks!