Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

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Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #60 – December 22, 2005, 09:42:36 PM

I don't know why, but I was thinking that the master cylinder/ vacuum booster had to be connected to the firewall. I never though it could go somewhere else like where the battery is now and relocate the battery to the trunk.

Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #61 – December 22, 2005, 10:01:30 PM

You could prolly fit it in the fender well area too.

Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #62 – December 23, 2005, 08:16:54 AM

Quote from: Haystack

You could prolly fit it in the fender well area too.

That's a good idea! Thanks! :)

If I remember correctly, there is a vacuum canister on the PS behind the wheel. Can I take my Vacuum source from there?

...it might be a problem getting the cable there thought. The straighter the cable the easier it would be to pull.

I'll just hook it up under the hood first for testing purposes then I'll figure out where it will live.

I'll get right at it the first warm day we get after I get over my Christmas hangover.

:singing carols:

Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #63 – December 23, 2005, 09:38:58 AM

You need to take vac off at a point that is fed from a larger hose 1/4" or so... Also a check valve in the line will be of the utmost importance, don't want to blow it full of boost, then try to use the clutch...

Hydraulic throwout bearing

Reply #64 – December 27, 2005, 02:53:03 PM

Here is the solution for those wanting to use hydraulic clutch actuation but without the required bellhousing adaption to use the slave cylinder: A mcleod hydraulic throwout bearing. It replaces the regular throwout bearing and lets you use your normal t5 bellhousing just like normal. You get rid of the clutch arm and run the lines to a hydraulic master cylinder actuated by whatever means you require...electric etc.

I was about to order one of these for my failed GM T-56 six speed behind a ford 351w experiment.

http://www.mcleodind.com/cgi-bin/fccgi.exe?w3exec=w3ezmenudriver&menuvalue=38&currmenuid=WMM&src1=/catalog_htm/2003cat.htm&w3hostname=MCLEOD

Later,
Aaron

Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #65 – December 27, 2005, 06:58:05 PM

87fox351: The 87-88 Turbo Coupes have a hydraulic clutch from the factory. No conversion necessary.

Be nice to see that 351-powered, T-56 car of yours tho

No! I haven't given up on that yet!

Reply #66 – January 27, 2006, 12:23:19 PM

I'm still researching this project and I have several ideas that I may try.

I did read online that there was a study done by some tech school where they created a set of handcontrols and didn't use a power assist. They did say that the user would need strong arms, which I do. In light of this I'm going to try again to hook up my clutch cable to the clutch pedal without a power adder. AKA plan A.

Plan B, C, D, E... :) require knowing something about hydraulics.

I've been doing some reading and stumbled across intensifiers but the practicallity of it is beyond me. If I read it right, a secondary hydraulic pressure line boosts the primary presure. Is this a linear relation? Can anyone here enlighten me?

Also, I found this site about 4x4 trucks and changing Broncos over to hydraulic brake boosters. I'm wondering if this would work for the clutch as well. I think the regular vacuum booster won't fit under the hood. It would seem that here the Hydraulic line is boosting the mechanical pressure on the master cylinder.

If no one here can help me, I may have to visit a local hydraulic shop and get some expert advice.

I'm hoping to get at this in the next week or so.

EDIT: Hmmmm! Something to read!
EDIT: Somemore reading

Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #67 – February 17, 2006, 08:41:45 AM

I've got all the parts I need to give this a go.

I'm going to attempt my first idea.

I'll do a rough fabrication first and if it works good I'll get my buddy "Enos the machinist" to make it pretty.

I hope to have it done this weekend. I'll post pictures when it's done.

Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #68 – February 17, 2006, 11:16:51 AM

i have thought about this a few times since you started researching this. an ex GF had a mom that drove a car with hand controls, and the trick is, you have to be able to do 5 things, with 2 hands (steer, shift, clutch, brake, and gas) 4 of which are "buttstuffog" and one can be "on/off" (shifting) and for the life of me there has to be a way to use radio controlled tech to do most of this with some buttstuffog switches and actuators. but it would be mighty complicated.

I still don't see how to steer and shift at the same time, whilst doing the stopping and going with the left hand

I don't know enough electronics, but someone has to have a multi controler set up for this somewhere... it is a very interesting puzzle.

having a paddle set like the wrc guys would own, but wouldhave to be modified to a button clutch (again, the hard on/off that would eat a normal clutch)..

Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #69 – February 17, 2006, 12:21:48 PM

Quote from: Funky Cricket

the trick is, you have to be able to do 5 things, with 2 hands (steer, shift, clutch, brake, and gas)

You are absolutely right!

I think it's easy to handle the clutch, brake, and gas with one hand. Of these three things, you are usually only doing two at a time, gas - clutch or brake - clutch.

The only time I can think of that I would be using all three at the same time is starting off on a hill. I could hold the brake so the car doesn't roll while I'm giving gas and letting out clutch to start moving forward.

What I'm thinking is that for the time that my right hand leaves the wheel to shift, I can handle the steering with the thumb on my left hand. I steer with my thumb now while I'm changing the radio station, adjusting the heater, and so on. It shouldn't be too much of a strech to do this while shifting.

Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #70 – February 20, 2006, 06:59:18 AM

With it being +7*C here Saturday morning, I went to the garage and started working on this. I got the fabrication done and tried the clutch. The handle moved quite easily but when I looked at the clutch pedal it was only moving about 1/4 the way down.

I moved the point where I attached the cable to the lever so I would get more travel on the clutch. The clutch moved about half way down this time but I had to pull as hard as I could on the lever to get it down. :(

I had a couple ideas what was making it so hard to move but it was getting close to suppertime and the bolt I was using to attach the cable to the lever broke. I decided to wait for another day to continue with experimenting.

Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #71 – February 20, 2006, 11:01:52 AM

Like I said before, you have no mechanical advantage with that setup.

Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #72 – February 20, 2006, 11:20:48 AM

Quote from: CougarSE

Like I said before, you have no mechanical advantage with that setup.

You're right! but I had to try the cheepest/easiest solution first.

I still want to tweek the handcontrols to see what I can get out of it. I did notice a couple things that, if fixed them, would make pulling the lever easier...but probably not easy enough.

Then, I'd like to experiment with different master/slave cylinders to see if I can get the desired effect with that.

Question for hydraulic people: What will make the clutch easier to push; bigger master (bore) and/or smaller slave or smaller master and/or bigger slave? I'm thinking bigger master bore and smaller slave bore would make the clutch easier to push, am I right? Stock is probably a 1:1 ratio between the master and the slave. If I went with a 3:1 or 5:1 bore ratio between the cylinders would make the clutch a lot easier. If my physics is right, a small force over a big area means a larger force over a smaller area.

Com'on Oldraven! Isn't this what you do for living?

Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #73 – February 20, 2006, 06:34:54 PM

The large bore M/C-small slave will be harder to operate, as it will increase the travel of the slave in relation to the movement of the M/C.

Using a manual transmission with handcontrols

Reply #74 – February 20, 2006, 08:35:54 PM

What Tom said. Just think of your brakes - you move the small bore M/C an inch or two applying moderate force, and in turn the pistons in the calipers move a fraction of an inch, but they exert a whole lotta force.