Intake manifold Reply #15 – October 18, 2012, 10:59:30 AM I've had a quick look at mine since earlier and I would say nevermind on the timing cover. coolant runs external to the cover, unless the cover is broken in some way (unlikely). Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #16 – October 18, 2012, 05:09:34 PM Well, I now have the passenger side head off. The cylinders were full of coolant (surprise!) and the head gasket (they make these at "toys are us"??) anyway, what was rubber is now about 80% gone, and if it is there it is thinner than paint and all messed up. Most of the ports were half/all plugged up. and of course it was smashed, smashed, smashed. I will probably clean out the ports in the block even though it means that I will have to take the oil pan off again to clean it out. I will probably get slammed for this, but would it be alright to flush the oil pan and block out with a hose and let it drain/dry over night with the heads off? Then I would be able to leave the oil pan on...just asking. It's not a big deal. Thanks! Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #17 – October 18, 2012, 05:23:04 PM Water causes rust......immediately. Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #18 – October 18, 2012, 05:34:07 PM Yep, I wiped out the cylinders. Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #19 – October 18, 2012, 11:12:30 PM I'd probably use a vacuum to clean out the ports, rather than soap and water. Some of those ports are coolant and some are oil. But, even the oil passages don't necessarily all drop right back into the oil pan. I guess what I am saying is that gasket debris can wreak havock in the futuer by clogging up the cooling system, blocking the pickup screen, clogging a coolant or oil passage within the block itself... nothing good can come from that scenario. Use a vacuum (shop vacs come in handy, right?) and carefully remove the debris from the ports using something like a small ser, razor blade or even a small flat head screwdriver, being careful NOT to scratch the gasket surface itself. I use a 3M Roloc Rotary surfacing pad(Maroon) and low speed with the vacuum right along side of it picking up the loose debris. One the gasket surfaces and ports are all cleaned up, on both the block and the heads, then scrub the gasket surfaces with acetone or paint thinner to remove ANY residual oil, anti-freeze, etc. Then put the head gaskets on dry, paying attention to the embossed directions, such as "this side up", etc. I recommend Felpro. You might also consider the investment in new head bolts, ARP being my recommendation. Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #20 – October 19, 2012, 12:00:40 AM Quote from: 86cougar;400738I will probably get slammed for this, but would it be alright to flush the oil pan and block out with a hose and let it drain/dry over night with the heads off? Then I would be able to leave the oil pan on...just asking. It's not a big deal. Thanks! Would it be alright to take a shiznit on your pillow and leave it over night, with the pillowcase off? (horrible buttstuffogy, but it's all I could come up with on short notice lol) Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #21 – October 19, 2012, 05:44:35 AM I hate to say this but you need to remove that engine and either rebuild it or replace it with a good one. Just a thought!!! Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #22 – October 19, 2012, 10:29:34 AM Crazy88, Thanks for all the good information. I took the head and removed the valves and springs and cleaned it up. I didn't find much build up on the valves as I expected to. I'm only using a razor blade for sing the gasket surfaces. TBS302, I knew what the answer would be and vinniebird said exactly what I was thinking. Let's see.... no stool on my pillow, and no stool in my engine block (lol). Gotcha!Tom, You don't have to feel bad about telling me that my engine needs to be rebuilt, I know. I looked in my engine compartment and it's getting empty. What I'm thinking about is rebuilding it myself. Have all the machining done, buy new parts and I'll put it together. Problem is with emissions, I have to stay with a stock engine and this engine is rated at about 150 hp.? If I tinker with it and just get it running I have more time do my homework. Now I'm thinking that even if I drop in a 351w I will do the same with it, but if I have to keep it stock at least I will have some h/p. Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #23 – October 19, 2012, 12:11:57 PM Quote from: 86cougar;400738Well, I now have the passenger side head off. The cylinders were full of coolant (surprise!) and the head gasket (they make these at "toys are us"??) anyway, what was rubber is now about 80% gone, and if it is there it is thinner than paint and all messed up. Most of the ports were half/all plugged up. and of course it was smashed, smashed, smashed. I will probably clean out the ports in the block even though it means that I will have to take the oil pan off again to clean it out. I will probably get slammed for this, but would it be alright to flush the oil pan and block out with a hose and let it drain/dry over night with the heads off? Then I would be able to leave the oil pan on...just asking. It's not a big deal. Thanks! Looks like I nailed this one :-) Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #24 – October 19, 2012, 12:40:01 PM Well, I just got my new Fel-pro gaskets. I'm wondering now that the coolant ports are clean, new radiator, thermostat, that now it has coolant pressure where it hasn't had it for years, if it blew out some gaskets? I going to concentrate on getting everything real clean, now I have the Permatex "ultra blue" I'm going to put everything back together dry. If it don't work this time, I'm going to start sending parts to the machinist. Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #25 – October 19, 2012, 03:04:19 PM THERE IS ONLY 1 USE FOR RTV IN A HEADGASKET JOB AND YOU DON'T USE BLUE. Blue is not oil resistant, it will swell and leak. Use black, in a 1/4"x 3/4" bead at the corners where the intake front and back seals meet the head, place the seals down, and then do it again over top of the end seals. EVERYPLACE ELSE IS DRY. Using RTV where it doesn't belong does not prevent leaks, it creates them. It you removed the timing cover, use a small blob at the corner where the oil pan meets the block before you put the cover back on. NO PLACE ELSE. We have an engine rebuilder here in town whose engines come in to OUR shop packed full of orange RTV. We can't make them stop, their poor customers are paying for the same work twice because those retards don't know how to use RTV.So that I am very clear, see this pic: Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #26 – October 19, 2012, 04:40:18 PM TFYK, Well it sounds like the "blue" is no different that the red that I used. The swelling and leaking is exactly what the "red" did. That sure would explain why I can't get the gasket to work. TFYK, I only put the RTV across the front and rear seal on top, about a 1/2" bead, no where else, but I used the "red". The last time I put the "blue" around the water jackets. What good is RTV if it's not oil resistant? This last time I do it dry except on the four corners of the valley, I use "black" RTV. Is it Permatex "black"? Thanks! Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #27 – October 19, 2012, 05:54:01 PM Blue RTV is suitable only for coolant. You can use it on things like water pumps and thermostat housings. Red is good for exhaust since it's temp tolerance is much much higher. I say you can use it in exhaust, and I have once or twice, but generally even though I can, I don't. I like a good gasket better. I'd only use RTV in exhaust if the s were really rusted badly but not to the point where I'd cut them out. Even then, I'd be more inclined to use ler cement. Black is your general good all around RTV, it's temp tolerance is high, it's oil resistant, it's soft but not squishy (like blue and especially orange), and it doesn't damage oxygen sensors. Then you have Godzilla, grey RTV. Grey is much harder and stronger when cured than any of the others, although not quite as heat resistant as black. Grey is good for hot high vibration sealing like diesel engines and transaxle cases along with split seams on transfer cases. I also like grey for differential covers (a good exception to that is non-integrated carrier diffs like a Ford 9", they like a dry gasket). When we break seals with grey RTV, we commonly have to use large prybars or mallets or even hammer and chisel (only when we're not trying to reuse the weaker part ex: stamped oil pan). There's your rundown on common RTV's and their uses. Generally almost all gaskets are meant to work best when installed dry. There are exceptions, such as where the OEM used RTV in place of a gasket, but you have to keep in mind that they use a robot to install it, so less is more. Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #28 – October 19, 2012, 06:22:33 PM TFYK, So, I just noticed that you said put RTV on both the top and bottom of the end seals. I only put it on the top. Thanks,for the explanation of RTV! That's what really helps me out. I've learned a lot about my car these last few months! I'm having fun doing it too! I better get back to work. Quote Selected
Intake manifold Reply #29 – October 19, 2012, 08:38:57 PM Grey is really the way to go...it's pretty much all we use and it works on everything. I ALWAYS put a skim coat around the water jacket ports on the heads, install gasket and another skim coat...and when I say skim coat, I mean you can see through it...it's not uncommon to pull and intake and find that the bolts closest to the coolant passages are almost rotten in half and on high mileage engines, you can often times get little pits in the heads/intake around the coolant jackets even if they weren't an evident leak. A skim coat around this area with the Grey rtv is the best way to go...I've been doing it for years and it's never failed me...some guys get nuts with gasket prep and install and all have their own weird little things that they swear is the ONLY right way. An engine builder on corral forums said the only way to install any gasket was on a perfectly prepped surface using only a razor blade, never any rotor tool and use a little assembly lube on the gaskets....yeah, they come off nice when you pull it apart, but you risk a leak.An example of how good Grey RTV is...a friend was rebuilding a '94 LT1 and I went over to help him out, the head gaskets went and sucked coolant into the cylinder and during compression stroke acted as a water jet on the heads...they were "repaired"(welded and machined) and during install I found a few considerable pits still from a poor weld job...we filled them with Grey RTV and a skim coat around the affected area and installed...this is NOT the correct way to do it, BUT, it's held up great and is daily driven...2yrs and going strong. Personally I would told the machinist to piss off and fix them right before I handed my money over.Good luck,Don Quote Selected
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