Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Topic: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV! (Read 5641 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #15 – April 12, 2005, 01:43:17 PM

And here I thought the Canadian government knew how to waste money.

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #16 – April 12, 2005, 01:54:52 PM

Quote from: EricCoolCats

Forcing change like that would be inherently wrong to the founding principles of this country.

Agreed. But if you've got to call 911 or talk to the police or go to court and they don't have anyone that speaks Spanish, Italian, Chinese, or whatever, is it your fault or theirs?

I haven't been able to have an intelligent conversation with my father-in-law. EVER. And I've been married almost two years. And the saddest part is that he is a very intelligent guy.

Bow to the will of the majority. Learn the language of the country in which you live. In the long run it'll be beneficial to you and your family anyway.

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #17 – April 12, 2005, 04:17:34 PM

While I am generally against other ethnicities (or whatever the word I'm looking for is) trying to shove their beliefsand customs down the throats of their host country I can see both sides of the issue. Take a fairly famous case here in Canada about a Sikh mountie that wanted the right to wear his turban instead of the regulation mountie garb. There are two sides to this issue and both are very valid.

On the "no, he should wear the mountie hat" side one could argue that he was aware of the dress code when he joined the force. One could say that he is in Canada, not India, and should adapt to Canada's ways. One could say that if we went to India to live we would be expected to follow their rules or be thrown in prison.

On the "Let 'im do it" side one could say that yes, we would have to follow their rules in India, but the fact that this Sikh fellow is not being forced to change his beliefs in Canada is one of the things that sets Canada apart from India; indeed, it is one of the compelling reasons to leave India and come to Canada in the first place. One could say that since aside from aboriginals Canada has no "ways" to adapt to, since we're all descended from immigrants. One could say that yes, he knew the rules, but not too long ago those rules also said no women. Rules can change.

It is not a cut-and-dry argument. It's tradition versus individual rights, and when these two issues clash it generally results in a lot of hysterics, a lot of hurt feelings, and in the end, a whole lot of nothing as the general public forgets all about it.

The same goes for this "official language" stuff, and I, for one, can see one very compelling reason to have an official language. Technically, and I'm surprised this has not been used in court, an immigrant could be acquitted of a criminal charge unless all of the paperwork and even the trial itself was in the person's native tongue. The state would have no defence against this argument because it has no official language, and thus it is nowhere in the law books that the laws must be written and enforced in english. The defendant could rightfully argue that because there is no official language, his own language is just as "important" as english and should therefore be used in the courtroom. He could refuse to sign documents, in fact, he could even refuse to show up in court with the argument that he could not understand the court order.

If this sounds foolish, consider this: In New Brunswick, Canada it happened. A guy got off on a bunch of parking tickets in Moncton because the no parking signs, court documentation and trial were all in english. He was french, and even though he fully understood english (he was on interviews on TV speaking it clearly) he did not have to recognize any of it because the province of New Brunswick has two official languages (english and french) and french was not present in any of this munil level stuff. The courts sided with him, threw his case out, and caused the city of Moncton to buy a whole lot of new stationery and signs.

While this is slightly different than having no official language at all, it still has the same ramnifications. If one language is not official, all languages could be considered official.

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #18 – April 12, 2005, 04:48:20 PM

Quote from: EricCoolCats

However, with the case in WV, it's nice to know that they're getting technologically advanced now. Next thing you know, they'll have some a' that thar 'lectricity and whatnot. ;)

Watch yer step, boy. I'll have to send a messenger over to Ohior with a nasty letter from tha gov'ner.

All joking aside, WV is one of the worst states in the country. It's usually in the last 3 states for "livability", and it's one of the heaviest moochers from the Federal government.
I graduate from college in about three weeks... then I'm scootin' to another state.

Now if you'll excuse me, I was in the middle of entertaining some dinner guests with my new stereoopticon.

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #19 – April 13, 2005, 07:07:44 AM

One of our state representatives here in Iowa introduced a bill, H.R. 997, to make English the official language of the US. Check it out here. I was in Corpus Christie, Texas about twelve years ago and went to Denny's to enjoy a grand slam. When I went in, I noticed signs in Spanish ABOVE signs in English. For a minute I thought I had gone to far south. In Texas I expect to see that kind of thing, but not here in the midwest, especially Iowa. Now Spanish is everywhere. Times have changed and it's tough for some of us to adjust. I knew it was getting out of hand up here when drive-up ATM's started having an English - Spanish choice before you proceed. To me, that's as dumb as having braille on the ATM!

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #20 – April 13, 2005, 12:26:57 PM

I guess one small point to make is. English is the most difficult language to learn with exceptions to every rule. Spanish would be easier for us to learn than english for them. BUT HELL WILL FREEZE OVER BEFORE I LEARN SPANISH! Here in Logan ohio we have a group of mexicans that have started a resturant. They don't even have spanish signs in the place. Gota love southern Ohio!

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #21 – April 13, 2005, 12:40:34 PM

Well I'm not that adamant about it. I actually like languages, though, so learning a new one is enjoyable to me. Plus I think it makes people feel more comfortable when you can speak to them in their native language. I know this from being around my wife's family: A lot of spanish speaking people are afraid to speak english to a native speaker because they are afraid they'll sound dumb or say something incorrectly or in the wrong context and embarass themselves.

I for one appreciate the effort when they at least try to speak english though. And most times they are way better at it than they think they are.

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #22 – April 13, 2005, 01:23:59 PM

I work with a lot of guys from the former soviet union, and when they apologize for mispr0nouncing something, or their poor english, I just tell them. 'Hey man. Your English is a lot better than my Russian.'

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #23 – April 13, 2005, 01:41:59 PM

I use a piece of software at work that was made by a french company, so the first time I needed tech support, I used the french I learned in school. Not a good idea! They tore me apart for improper phrasing and pr0nounciation of certain words. After the berating, they offered their english speaking help desk. I was too busy bandaging my wounds to correct their **American** english. Freakin frogs.

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #24 – April 13, 2005, 01:42:20 PM

Quote

I don't think "melting pot" applies very well anymore. Such a term insinuates ingredients blending/melting together to become something new, etc.

I'm not trying to be funny here, but I agree with Bird351 and I think a more correct term today would be a Tossed saled. You got tomatoes, lettuce, onions, cucumbers and other vegetables all in the same dish/bowl, but all can be separated and individualized

Quote

A lot of spanish speaking people are afraid to speak english to a native speaker because they are afraid they'll sound dumb or say something incorrectly or in the wrong context and embarass themselves

OK, embarassment sucks, however I am on the flipside of that coin. My Spanish is good, but NOT GREAT. I know enough to carry on a converstion, but I cannot take a witness statement from someone who has seen or been a victim of a crime who speaks only Spanish. I am not skilled enough in the Spanish language. I would rather the attempt be made if it is possible to try the other language that is used by the majority. In some instances it can save time, money and even a life.

Quote

I'm surprised this has not been used in court, an immigrant could be acquitted of a criminal charge unless all of the paperwork and even the trial itself was in the person's native tongue

This happens all the time! Case in point:
Police Officer X arrests person Y for DWI. Officer X speaks only English. Person Y speaks only Spanish. According to NYS law for DWI rights must be read and also another paragraph from a form called an "Alcohol/Drug Influence Report" which is read before you ask the defendant if he wishes to blow into the Intoxylizer machine. According to the law it does not have to be read in Spanish. It does not happen often, but sometimes a good defense attorney can get a DWI arrest dismissed on this alone. Needless to say I make sure it is read in Spanish if required.

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #25 – April 13, 2005, 01:50:38 PM

Quote

They tore me apart for improper phrasing and pr0nounciation of certain words.

Yeah but you're talking about the French. They have a preservation society in their country that is actively trying to eliminate the use of any words in the French language that have an influence from another language. They want to keep their language free from "impurities."

Examples: Instead of le computer you must say le ordinateur and other such nonsense.

So yeah. The French are uppity about their language. They are snotty and rude and like disgusting cheese too.

There are two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other peoples' cultures, and the French.

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #26 – April 13, 2005, 01:55:17 PM

I thought it was "the Dutch"!

Favorite french phrase: "Il es facteur" Only because it sounds dirty but loosly translated is "He is a mailman"

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #27 – April 13, 2005, 01:56:49 PM

Quote

I thought it was "the Dutch"!

hehe. I hoped someone would catch that reference.

"I'm from Holland! Isn't that weird?"

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #28 – April 13, 2005, 02:02:06 PM

Would you like a smoke and a pancake?

It got weird didn't it.

Re: Welcome to the 21st Century, WV!

Reply #29 – April 13, 2005, 02:08:22 PM

Quote from: Paul Flockhart

I'm not trying to be funny here, but I agree with Bird351 and I think a more correct term today would be a Tossed saled. You got tomatoes, lettuce, onions, cucumbers and other vegetables all in the same dish/bowl, but all can be separated and individualized

Don't sweat it, I already left the door open for people to throw out the "tossed salad" jokes. :p