Speed cameras in Ohio

Topic: Speed cameras in Ohio (Read 4301 times) previous topic - next topic

Speed cameras in Ohio

March 09, 2009, 12:34:27 AM

Beware...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/372009-ohio-house-votes-to-implement-freeway-photo-radar/#more-275151

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #1 – March 09, 2009, 12:58:02 AM

you are actully presumed guilty first ,, and you have to show your not?

Isnt that against the constitution?

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #2 – March 09, 2009, 01:27:59 AM

Quote from: jcassity;260233

you are actully presumed guilty first ,, and you have to show your not?

Isnt that against the constitution?

Correct, but look at the article a little closer. It clearly states "nonjudicial, administrative hearing", not a court of law. This is how the lowlifes :flip: manage to get around the system so many people have fought to defend. This is what it is coming down to. It's also nice that we can't trouble the police to do their jobs any longer, they now have to go and hire "for profit" companies to manage this program. Gee, I wonder who's benifiting from this? Sure as hell not the citizens of Ohio.

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #3 – March 09, 2009, 02:10:03 AM

it.

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #4 – March 09, 2009, 09:03:32 AM

Got read the article In the latest Car&Driver about the same problem in Arizona, they work the tickets around so they can get away with it and not have to deal with violating the constitution. Its completely ridiculous, states look at this because its EASY revenue, they think "Hey, it worked for Arizona why can't it work for me?"

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #5 – March 09, 2009, 11:25:58 AM

There was talk of it here in MO too. Hope I see some decrease in crime, not a decrease in the police force. That would be a slap in everyones face if they cut officers.

I wonder if I can get my street patrolled again like they did when I was little. Guess the dead end was too much trouble. I requested it when they tried to steal my neighbors car and then tried to get in mine (assuming to do the same), but nothing. Last time I saw a cop at my end of the street was when my phone called 911 because the buttons didnt work right. Never used that one again.

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #6 – March 09, 2009, 12:21:33 PM

So.... if you aren't speeding (especially in construction zones), you don't have anything to worry about.
It also clearly states where the money goes from the tickets.

It's funny how people whine about laws being enforced. Seems to me that the ones who complain the loudest are the ones who are usually breaking the laws and hoping to not get caught.
This just ups your chances of getting caught, I think that's what people's real problem with it is.

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #7 – March 09, 2009, 12:26:59 PM

Quote from: LittleAngel1198;260295

So.... if you aren't speeding (especially in construction zones), you don't have anything to worry about.
It also clearly states where the money goes from the tickets.

It's funny how people whine about laws being enforced. Seems to me that the ones who complain the loudest are the ones who are usually breaking the laws and hoping to not get caught.
This just ups your chances of getting caught, I think that's what people's real problem with it is.

It is. I get caught for everything anyways so thats not my worry. When people bring up the "doing their jobs" topic though it makes me think. In the time we are in the last thing we need is something that replaces more jobs. If this does work then I hope that other issues can be dealt with since they wont be spread as thin.

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #8 – March 09, 2009, 12:27:38 PM

according to Car&Driver the tickets issued by these cameras are civil offenses rather than criminal offenses, that tweak conveniently sidesteps the legal requrement in criminal cases to prove guilt beyond a resonable doubt. For a civil case, the state need only show guilt was "Likely". This is a bad way to get screwed but this way the company that makes the camera doesn't need one to show the face of the driver. Its likely to be the vehicle owner who was driving so HE gets the ticket. Eliminating due-process makes revenue for the state faster. Its a complete grease job.

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #9 – March 09, 2009, 12:35:51 PM

If it wasn't the owner driving, they can dispute it as such.

And please don't tell me it's about the jobs.... I don't believe that for one minute. If people were seriously concerned about officers and losing their jobs, they wouldn't use speeding as an excuse. The only reason officers lose their jobs is because of lack of funding for their pay or the officers that end up breaking the laws themselves, it's never over lack of crime or people to arrest/ticket.
Officers will never have to worry about job security when it comes to crimes and people breaking laws and them needing to enforce them.

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #10 – March 09, 2009, 12:39:20 PM

Its a civil case so you basically become guilty because its not a criminal case as i stated you are LIKELY to be guilty therefore you ARE guilty.

Speeding isn't smart but we have all done it sometime in our life. Some of us seem to attract officers (Like myself) and we don't like it.

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #11 – March 09, 2009, 12:41:14 PM

If there's any comfort in the whole speed camera mess, it's that insurance companies, who have long been lobbying for speed cameras (in the name of safety, of course) will not benefit from it. Because it's a civil matter it does not go against the driver's record and insurance companies will never find out about it. That C&D article actually points this fact out, and goes so far as to say that lawmakers actually made it this way so that people would be less likely to fight the ticket. Make the ticket hurt as little as possible. No profits in court hearings. However, if you decided to fight a ticket and lost (which you almost certainly would, since courts are stacked in favour of the DMV) you lose points, your insurance company finds out, and you pay through the nose.

The C/D article is actually mainly focused around that point: Pay without a fuss and you'll be unscathed. I think the article is even called "Give us your money and nobody gets hurt"

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #12 – March 09, 2009, 12:44:18 PM

It is also the problem that Ohio is known for hard-ass cops. And every single bit of that perception is absolutely true. This action does nothing but reinforce the notion.

In our neighboring state of PA, they've instituted a little better of a system when it comes to construction zones, especially on the turnkpike. Headlights must be turned on, but the speed limits are surprisingly higher compared to Ohio. Maybe it's because PA insists on putting a double cement barrier around the work zone. Their signage is also much better and surprisingly accurate. Also, the road crews will turn on a flashing yellow light to let the motorists know that, yes indeed, there is actual work being done at this time so they'd better slow down. No flashing light, no work zone. Simple, effective, communicative.

Ohio? Not so much. They're rather ambush you, assume you're guilty, and make you pay an exhorbitant fine.

I don't blame anyone for not wanting to travel our state (even though it is a nice Midwestern state with a very progressive capital). I'm also thankful that CJ is just over the border from PA, and not more mid-state, for those travelling from the east and southeast.

The notion of the proposal--safety in work zones--is commendable. The end outcome (if it passes) is reprehensible. Simple as that.

Traffic cameras are simply a way for communities who may be short-staffed to generate revenue in the name of "safer streets". On the surface their motives may look honorable. But everyone knows that money is the impetus. The fact that traffic camera companies kick back revenue to the city is all the proof you'll ever need. Why pay a cop to sit at an intersection, when a box can do it for you all day long AND pay you back at the same time? It's no surprise that this is like dangling a kapybara in front of a crocodile. And mayor after mayor gets suckered in...

We have three communities in my area dealing with traffic cameras. One is trying to get it; city council keeps voting it down in fear that it will drive business away. Another city had it, but an Ohio Supreme Court decision put it in limbo, and all the fines collected are now in escrow; a final decision is still pending. A third city just got it. I've seen the box a few times but it was always in the other direction. Seemed to have little effect on people's driving, especially when the road--speed limit 25 MPH--is so littered with potholes that it's practically impossible to go the speed limit anyway.

The box can't tell if someone is going left-of-center. The box can't check for expired tags. The box can't pull anyone over for having headlamps out. All it can do is measure speed and take photos. Its singular purpose will eventually be its downfall. When communities are held hostage because of them, there can only be one outcome. I can tell you that business owners did things like block the camera with their vehicles, or put a piece of black posterboard over the front, things like that, as a protest to the cameras being chained in front of their businesses. No damages were ever done to the boxes themselves. Was it obstruction of justice? Well, since it's civil, that's another grey area, isn't it?

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #13 – March 09, 2009, 12:44:21 PM

yeah but its so sneaky they want you to fight it

Speed cameras in Ohio

Reply #14 – March 09, 2009, 12:59:12 PM

Karen: If it was about safety I'd have no problem whatsoever with speed cameras. Unfortunately safety has nothing to do with it. Speed cameras are rarely, if ever, set up in an area where excessive speed will kill you or somebody else (like on old back roads, at construction sites, etc). They're almost exclusively set up on some of the safest stretches of road around (interstates, 4-lanes) because that's where people are more likely to speed. Another popular speed camera trick is to set up in an area where there is a sudden reduction in speed limits, or where the speed limit is kept artificially low for the sole purpose of nailing speeders. In other words they are set up where they can make the most money, not where they can make the most difference with safety.

And it's not just speed cameras set up at these convenient locations. Police officers frequent them as well. Every time I go to the city I see a speed trap on the same stretch of road. Perfectly straight, perfectly level, four lanes of smooth pavement, and at the times they set their traps, relatively light traffic. Perfect place to catch speeders.

Meanwhile the newspapers are full every day of people being killed on the twisted, hilly, and very poor condition back roadsmuch like the road I live on. In fact, I live right at the point where the speed limit goes from 50 to 40 MPH (the sign is actually on my property) because there's a very sharp turn coming up with a gas station on that turn. Two months after I moved in a person was killed on that turn - she was out checking her mailbox and a speeding (and drunk) teenager lost it on the turn and nailed her. Every single day I see people pulling around other cars to pass right in front of my house, even though it's a reduced speed zone, not a passing lane, and in one direction it's a blind turn and in the other it's a blind hill. Every time I leave my driveway, even if I'm turning right, I have to look both ways before leaving it to make sure nobody's coming the other way on the wrong side of the road.

Yet you NEVER see police cars on the back roads. EVER. Because there isn't enough volume to write the officer's pay cheque, much less for his car and radar gun. Speed cameras at least eliminate the officer and car, but they still set 'em up in the safest but most profitable areas, not the areas that could really use some enforcement.

Check that: You do see cop cars on the back roads sometimes: For one month a year, it's deer season, and the back roads suddenly become busy. Lots of drunk drivers and gun violations. There are police everywhere at that time of year. I'm not growling about them being there, though - I just wish they'd devote that same kind of attention to the real dangerous roads the other 11 months of the year.