Base Cluster AMP light

Topic: Base Cluster AMP light (Read 2469 times) previous topic - next topic

Base Cluster AMP light

June 25, 2006, 09:06:29 AM

1st i would like to say hi to all the members.

now i guess its straight to the point. I have a 88 V8 with the base cluster. A while back i tried to do the 199 mph upgrade, and it did not turn out too good. So when i put the cluster back in my AMP light now stays lit. I have read alot about changing clusters, and all the work that is involved in that, so i will just keep my base, and work from there. I just need to get the AMP light part working again. Also i had noticed before that the door ajar light doesnt work, and the bulb out warnings dont seem to work either. This was before i pulled the cluster out to begin with. Am i screwed, or do i just look for a donor cluster? Any help? Please?

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #1 – June 25, 2006, 09:55:05 AM

The bulb out and door ajar lights were options. If they didn't work before the cluster was removed, chances are you don't have those options. The cluster has the bulbs because Ford didn't make a separate cluster for each option combination, but there is no wiring to those bulbs if the car was not so equipped.

The W2 mod should not affect the amp light, since there is really no electronic circuitry going to the bulb - (by this I mean that the bulb is not controlled within the cluster by any module or chip - it's just a bulb and some wires going to the alt). Unless you modified your wiring harnesses everything should be OK. The first thing to check is to see if the alternator is actually working...

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #2 – June 25, 2006, 11:02:26 AM

The alt is new, and before my Fluke went out it showed it was charging. But now that i remember i had the amp light problem before. I traced the lead from the alt to all the way to the firewall, or was it the starter solenoid? either way i wound up just wigglin the wires on the back of the cluster itself, and it worked for a while. since then i have replaced the starter solenoid and battery since one day i tried to bypass a bad solenoid to start up the car. i thought i had fried a fusible link but its shows power on both sides of all my links. the thing is the amp light now stays on. this is where im lost. I need to get another fluke, but was trying to see if there was something else that i could try first. Also Im going to check on the door ajar , and bulb out parts again. If it wasnt equipped how hard would it be to equip it from scratch?

thanks for your help ThunderChicken, looks like you know these cats in and out

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #3 – June 25, 2006, 12:32:17 PM

It would be extremly difficult to install the "Lamp out" system because you'd need the wiring harness from a car that had the option. The system uses special "resistance wires" to each light and a "lamp out module" to work and would be almost impossible to build from scratch.

The "Door ajar" might be a bit easier, as I think it is only a matter of using different switches and running some wire, but as I don't have access to my EVTM manual right now I can't say for sure.

If wiggling the wires on the back of the cluster used to solve your problem, then you've likely found your problem :D You likely had a poor connection that wiggling would make better (or a short, that wiggling would break the short). Poor connections (and shorts) almost always get worse, so it's likely now poor to the point that wiggling the wires won't help. Check the condition of the wiring. make sure no harnesses are pinched behind the cluster or rubbing against metal, and make sure the printed circuit board on the back of the cluster is nice, shiny copper where the plugs plug into it.

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #4 – June 25, 2006, 01:40:35 PM

Wigglin is dangerous business, i looked at the pins, the seem to look fine, i think its 10 and 11 on the gray plug, but i will have to set the cluster back in and be sure of the no pinch situation. I'll be better off when i can get me another multimeter im sure. And i do have a systems sentry that i got once from the boneyard, i might even play with that when i get this problem resolved. Luckily that is the only major problem i have had with the cat, other than needing a new exhaust. so i guess it might be worth keeping around a while longer.

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #5 – June 25, 2006, 04:18:17 PM

The 12v through the lamp and the shunt resistor in parallel with it go to the "I" terminal on the voltage regulator. This turns on the alternator field current.
When the alternator starts turning it generates a stator voltage (1/2 the alternator output voltage). This voltage is applied to the "S" terminal of the voltage regulator.
The stator voltage takes over the job of keeping the field current turned on and shuts off current flow through the "I" terminal. This turns off the lamp.

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #6 – June 25, 2006, 06:31:09 PM

That sounds just like the explanation i was looking for except.....

I have no clue as to what you just said :D is there any way for you to put it in small easy words so that amatuer like me can understand, and maybe add in some color codes?

thanks

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #7 – June 25, 2006, 11:35:10 PM

Is your voltage regulator part of the alternator or a seperate box?

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #8 – June 26, 2006, 05:13:20 AM

part of the alt if im not mistaking

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #9 – June 26, 2006, 02:57:44 PM

My '84 T-Bird has the voltage regulator seperate from the alternator. Don't think I would trust the color codes matching your car.
You should have a plug in your alternator with the wire positions labled A, I and S.
Unplug the cable. The amp light should not light. If it does you have a ground on the "I" wire back to the AMP light. You will have to track that down.

If no ground problem, plug the cable back in. With a hacksaw blade feel for magnetisim on the alternator case at the laminated steel area. Key off no magnet. Key on engine off you should have a magnet. This tells you the wire to "I" is turning on the field coil and you should have output from the alternator when it starts turning.

With the engine running you should have voltage from the alternator stator on the "S" wire (this is internal on some alternators). This should turn off your AMP light.

I took some voltage readings at the voltage regulator on my car:
"I" wire--KOEO--AMP light on--4.49v
"I" wire--KOER--AMP light off--13.62v
"S" wire--KOEO--0.16v
"S" wire--KOER--7.2v

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #10 – June 26, 2006, 06:57:04 PM

Sweet! thanks that helps a lot, a whole lot! as soon as it stops raining out here im gonna go get me a new fluke and try that. although..... Im also trying to purchas a full buttstuffog Cluster too... you know how to do the change over on those? Hope im not asking for too much, but dam you and Thunderchicken are better than Chiltons and Haynes combined!

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #11 – June 27, 2006, 03:29:12 PM

No I've never done a cluster change. There are threads on this board on doing it. There are people on here who can help.
As I recall, you may have to change some sensors. Fuel gauge sending unit in the tank and oil pressure sensor. But that's just my shaky recall. Start a thread and people who know for sure will chime in.

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #12 – June 27, 2006, 10:37:37 PM

From base digital to full buttstuffogue you only have to change the oil sender - the water and fuel senders for the base cluster are the same (since those gauges are actually buttstuffogue themselves). You'll also need to install an extension between the engine and the sending unit, since the larger pressure sender will not fit in the small area.

While doing the cluster swap you will have to do quite a bit of rewiring at the cluster plugs. The buttstuffogue cluster uses only one plug and none of the wires are in the same locations as either of the two plugs in the base cluster. You'll also have to extend a few wires, and you will have to run at least one wire through the firewall and out under the hood to the ignition coil for the tach signal.

While it is not an extremely difficult swap, I'd recommend against doing it yourself if you aren't comfortable with vehicle electronics. If you are up to it (or willing to learn, which is how all of us learned what we did) I have some info on my website here:

http://www.foxthundercats.com/tech/cluster.htm

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #13 – June 28, 2006, 12:48:51 AM

Wiring isnt a problem at all, i used to do it for a living. getting back into it is just taking me some time. I used to could wire anything as long as i had a schematic. I had checked out your site previously, along with another one. It seems pretty straight forward. I didnt know about the oil sending unit though. I knew that it is normally larger for a buttstuffog set up. I might need help on the extension part. I also thought i would need a new speed sensor is that not the case?

and as i was on my way home loaded with parts i realized i cant even do the swap until i go through inspection because there is no gear indicator on the buttstuffog cluster, and i have a column shift

Base Cluster AMP light

Reply #14 – June 28, 2006, 03:30:52 PM

I was gonna mention that shift indicator thing in my previous post and forgot :D

The speed sensor is the same for buttstuffogue and digital gauges. These cars used fully electronic speedos even with buttstuffogue gauges.