Introduction and problem :D April 12, 2006, 03:25:42 PM Hi, this is my first post on these forums, I used to hang out on tccoa.com when I had a '89 T-bird, but unfortunately that got totalled. I'm now the lucky owner of an '87 T-bird, but it's having it's fair share of little annoying issues that are, at the moment, driving me absolutely insane.I live in the Netherlands (over in Europe), just so y'all know Anyhow. A while ago I got the usual shudder-when-braking so I knew I needed new rotors. Along with the shudder came a kind of knocking/slapping noise, almost as if something was constantly slapping against the wheel well. You can feel it thru the floorboard and it ended up vibrating the steering wheel quite a lot too. So there I went to get new rotors put on. Rotors were put on, brand new, but the shudder-when-braking was still there. Next thing I notice is that my struts up front are pretty much dead as can be, so I had those replaced too. The slapping noise got a bit less, but still (annoyingly) there. The shudder when braking is still there -- guess either the rotors warped again or something else happened. It's so bad that around 30km/h (sorry guys I'll find a km/mile converter soon) it's so bad that the entire car shakes like it's having an epilepsy seizure. So there I go again, check some more things and discover that my front bearings are wearing out nicely, and need replaced. Also replaced some bushings on the swaybar (the ones where it's stuck to the .. uh.. subframe?) because they were gone.And the noise and shudder were still there.I finally got new tires up on the front and figured my problems would be over. The old tires had a noticeable up/down wobble and weren't quite round anymore. But no. The problem is still there. The noise is still there, and it's gotten to the point where you just can't drive the car all relaxed like anymore. I'm quite at a loss as to what it could be, and I don't quite feel ready to go spend more money to fix a problem that .. seemingly just doesn't want to get fixed.Some more info: The new wheel bearings were installed properly, I've verified with the mechanic that did the job that he followed the proper procedure for tightening the nut. The tires themselves are brand new, balanced on one of them Hunter road-force balancers. Cooper Classic II's, if that's any use.The lug nuts are torqued to about 95 lb/ft. The car had a full alignment done when the new shocks went on (this is -before- the wheel bearings were replaced, and -before- the new tires went on). The car tracks straight. There's a rather pr0nounced "wobble" at about 25-30kmh ... it has that epileptic thing when braking, but if I just start rolling, when it gets to 25/30 it feels like the front end is bobbing up and down. Sometimes it'll go side-to-side, but I can't imagine new tires would be out of round.Anyone have any brilliant insights? Quote Selected
Introduction and problem :D Reply #1 – April 12, 2006, 03:34:16 PM how are the ball joints and tierod ends? check those and maybe your control arm bushings sounds like those are the only things that you havent checked Quote Selected
Introduction and problem :D Reply #2 – April 12, 2006, 03:44:48 PM Quote from: 88turbohow are the ball joints and tierod ends? check those and maybe your control arm bushings sounds like those are the only things that you havent checkedYou would think the alignment mechanic would have found any problems with the tierod ends.EDIT: BTW welcome :) Quote Selected
Introduction and problem :D Reply #3 – April 12, 2006, 03:52:39 PM Hmmm....I'm suspecting bad strut mounts.... Quote Selected
Introduction and problem :D Reply #4 – April 12, 2006, 04:20:57 PM could also be a problem with the driveshaft maybe? I guess then it would be alot worse at higher speeds then though, there is a dog bone shaped weight on the drive shaft, although, on all of my cars they are long gone.Also, welcome. Quote Selected
Introduction and problem :D Reply #5 – April 12, 2006, 04:36:58 PM A driveshaft problem wouldn't affect the front suspension at just 30km/h though. Those are usually at higher speeds.If the ball joints and tie rods are good, then it has to be the strut mounts. Has to be...Ben mentioned that the problem got slightly better with new struts. Worn strut mounts will let the strut flap around, throwing off suspension geometry, wearing out bearings and tires, and killing any hope of good alignment. Quote Selected
Introduction and problem :D Reply #6 – April 12, 2006, 04:49:46 PM you might want to check the coil springs i had a similar problem and one front coil was busted, and the car didnt sag but had the same effect when i hit the brakes. Quote Selected
Introduction and problem :D Reply #7 – April 12, 2006, 08:59:08 PM Okay, stupid question *cough*The strut mounts are the things you can see inside the engine bay right? With the 3 nuts to hold everything together and 1 big nut in the center that holds the strut in? Thing is that the struts were replaced like, 3 weeks ago, so I figure they'd notice if they were bad, or is that hopeful thinking?I checked the springs day before yesterday when they were putting my new tires on, and they didn't look cracked or otherwise damaged, everything's still in the places it's supposed to be.How does one check the ball joints and the tie-rods? Just see if you can wiggle the tire around and see if there's any play in there? Just so y'all know, I'm a computer geek with 2 left hands so I might occasionally get it completely wrong when it comes to cars Anyway, the "symptom" list as it stands is about this;0-20km/h: all is well20-30km/h: there's a pr0nounced wobble in the car. It's apparently not real visible from the outside, but on the inside it just feels like you're driving over cobblestones or something.30-50km/h: all is mostly well, a few little "humps" here and there.50-90km/h: vibration in the steering wheel, it starts gently and at around 80km/h it's shaking up a storm. The car itself doesn't wobble or shake, just the steering wheel goes nuts and you can feel a vibration in the floorboard.80km/h-120km/h: vibration tends to vanish at 105km/h, but you get the "slapping" noise. The noise itself is pretty unpredictable, sometimes it's there, other times it isn't. I tried doing some lane changes to see if it'd show up on left/right turns, but no joy there, it just comes and goes. Braking is also quite the experience, anywhere above 80km/h you get a pr0nounced rumble & rattle going that says to me "warped rotors", and then you get the absolute jink 'n jive dance at 30km/h. And I noticed just now (went for some food) that the drivers side rear is sitting noticeably lower than the rest of the car, almost like it's heavily loaded there but there ain't anything in the car. And apologies if I'm asking 1001 questions but the drawback of owning a car like this over here is that most shops that work on them (or rather, that I trust to deliver good work) charge an arm, leg, and a couple ribs just to look at things, and at the moment I'm pretty wiped out on funds after the last spending spree :D So I'd rather have a little list of "I want you to check x, y and z" so I can save me some bucks and put that into new parts :DThanks for all the answers so far, and also thanks for the welcome :) I'll post some pics here soon, although I've seen my bird's twin on the forum already, a two-tone grey one :D Quote Selected
Introduction and problem :D Reply #8 – April 12, 2006, 10:24:58 PM are u sure its in the front of the car? -check ABS -check E break- are ur wheels bent ? or not balenced right ? thats just what came into my head ...im only just starting to learn about the automobile my self .... btw welcome ...hey my brothers name is ben ....so if i happen to yell at you ....lol j/k Z Quote Selected
Introduction and problem :D Reply #9 – April 12, 2006, 10:41:18 PM Quote from: hundred_dollar_5.0_t-birdare u sure its in the front of the car? -check ABS -check E break- are ur wheels bent ? or not balenced right ? thats just what came into my head ...im only just starting to learn about the automobile my self .... btw welcome ...hey my brothers name is ben ....so if i happen to yell at you ....lol j/k ZWell, the ABS check can be done in 0.01 seconds flat; it doesn't have ABS :D The parking brake was adjusted when I had my rear drums changed (forgot to mention that besides the front discs I also had the drums, shoes and brake cylinders in the rear replaced, they were all worn out). The wheels... I dunno. It could be; they were balanced when I got new tires put on though, on one of those fancy Hunter machines. Perfect 0/0 balance on both sides for both tires. The wheel not being quite right, now there's an option since well...The old tire that was on there, the guy that was gonna do up some new tires gave it a twirl and you could see about half an inch of up/down motion so I figured the tire was out of round. Didn't give it much more thought since I had 2 new tires that were gonna go on there. But I also figure, if the wheel itself was off by that much, they'd notice when they're putting the tire on.. at least.. I think.. and the balancer woulda probably complained too... Going back there tomorrow and have them take a look at it, if I give them the whole "dude, you were supposed to fix it.. so fix it, pretty please" thing they might even do it for free. Can't beat that :D Quote Selected
Introduction and problem :D Reply #10 – April 12, 2006, 11:00:43 PM I'd check to make sure the wheels are straight and mounted correctly - do you have aftermarket rims? If so, are they the sort that rely on "shouldered" nuts with slotted lug holes in the rims? If so, junk 'em and get the correct rims (I had this same problem with an old Firebird).Also, try rotating the tires front to rear - even if they're balanced a tire could have a stiff belt or be "flatspotted". Also check the tires for "scalloping" by rubbing your hand along the tread first in a forward direction, then backward. If you can feel a major difference with how hard it is to rub your hand in one direction compared to the other, the tire is scalloped, which will cause a slapping sound.Check your ball joints - a simple visual check of the wear indicator will tell you if there's enough slop to cause a shimmy - the wear indicator is a small round spot on the bottom of the ball joint where the grease nipple should go (but Ford didn't install grease nipples). IT should be flush to the surface around it or stick out a little. If it's recessed the ball joint is worn. The tie rods can be checked without even jacking the car up - have somebody gently rock the steering wheel back and forth and stick your head under the car. Observe the tie rod ends - if there is any slop, replace them. If there is no slop, grab the tie rod while the person is still rocking the steering wheel. If you can feel a distinct "click" as the tension switches back and forth the inner rods are worn and need replacing.Of course, any alignment mechanic worth his weight in alignment shims should have found any loose/worn parts during the pre-alignment inspection, but some guys use the "Set the toe, let 'er go" alignment method.And of course, as Eric mentioned, check the strut mounts. Having a tight suspension down below won't help if the top is flopping about... Quote Selected
Introduction and problem :D Reply #11 – April 13, 2006, 12:57:50 PM Well, I went back today and we pretty much went over everything, nothing out of the ordinary. Took the car for a drive with one of the better mechanics doing the driving and first thing he said is that it's driveline related.So now I get to find out what the heck is up with it. I did forget to mention here that the engine in my bird isn't quite 100%. I'll dump some info here, maybe y'all got an idea, and if it should be in it's own thread, someone tell me so I can fix that up Anyway; engine wise, this car is ... odd. I had a glance at a haynes manual for it some time ago and noticed that this car has a custom true-duel exhaust (it's a 5.0 SO), the smog pump's no longer being driven by the belt (it's seized up), the AC has it's electronics disconnected. Fun engine facts: On starting the car, it'll idle at about 1100/1200 rpm. It'll do that for a minute and then drop back down to about 900. In park. When you shift it out of park to drive/reverse, it'll sit at 800rpm. When putting the car back in park, especially after it's driven for a while, it'll instantly start howling at 1400-1600 RPM. I'm suspecting the IAC here.Also when it's not under load (i.e. coasting) it purrs nicely. When you accellerate or put load on it, it starts... chattering. It sounds like rod knock but isn't, sounds like it comes from the passenger side, rear most cylinder. It does have a leaky exhaust manifold gasket though, and a few people mentioned that that could lead to the chattering sound. It also runs pig rich until the engine's warmed up. When semi-warm, if you blip the throttle, out comes this dark grey cloud of smoke, and you can see condensation/gas/something liquid shoot out the tailpipes. I'm figuring I need to take care of that first, before I go and see if the engine/tranny mounts are shot. Anyone have any ideas about the above mentioned things? I was quoted half a grand for the shop to take a day and check it out altogether and uh... yeah.. I'd rather spend that cash on something else :D Quote Selected
Introduction and problem :D Reply #12 – April 13, 2006, 02:52:13 PM If you still have the "knocking/slapping" noise check your front swaybar frame mount brackets. I broke one once and it made the knocking sound you describe. Just grab the bar from underneath and give it a good pull while looking at the mounts. You'll know if ones busted. Quote Selected
Topic: Introduction and problem :D (Read 2000 times)
previous topic - next topic
