Shifting Without Clutch...

Topic: Shifting Without Clutch... (Read 1221 times) previous topic - next topic

Shifting Without Clutch...

November 12, 2005, 05:58:29 PM

My current cruise driver is the F-150. Is 5 speed manual. It´s not very fun, but well, i found that at some RPM´s i can do the shifts without using the clutch....

How does this affects the transmission ? is bad ?

Shifting Without Clutch...

Reply #1 – November 12, 2005, 06:12:36 PM

im sure ill get flamed on this but generally its fine if done right. its called rev matching or syincing. your basically doing the same thing the syncros are doing. the engine and tranny have to be going the same "speed". i can do it pretty good in my 96 ranger. its better to use the clutch though.

from what ive heard i guess "back in the day" when manual trannys were syncroless generally you had to revmatch as well as double clutch. ive never experianced any requirement for that though. never drove anything old either.

Shifting Without Clutch...

Reply #2 – November 12, 2005, 06:21:06 PM

i can do it pretty good in my bird, only done it a few times tho, just to see if i could get good at it lol. i know alot of buss drivers that do it to.

Shifting Without Clutch...

Reply #3 – November 12, 2005, 07:16:17 PM

I used to do it in my Nissan truck all the time - more out of laziness than anything else (you know, with that clutch pedal being all the way over there). Eventually I ended up wearing out the second gear synchro, which resulted in having to double clutch to get into second (it would grind like hell otherwise). To be fair to the truck, though, that tranny had 270k miles on it when it was rebuilt...

Shifting Without Clutch...

Reply #4 – November 12, 2005, 09:10:08 PM

I used to do it in my Sundance. I got so good at it that I only needed the clutch for pulling out. And the tranny was beat on through its life, so no more harm could have come from me doing that than from the 1...2...3...4......many first time learners of driving manual, including myself....ironic too that I ended up buying the car I learned stick on.

Now we just jump it about 4 foot off the ground at my house...my brother railed a deer with it....ahh good times with Chrysler junk.

Shifting Without Clutch...

Reply #5 – November 13, 2005, 08:14:49 AM

I only *needed* to do it once, when my old VW Fastback snapped the clutch cable coming over the overpass from "downtown". Good thing I'd practiced a few times after reading about the technique in my manual "How To Keep Your VW Alive."

About 2 miles uphill to the VW dealer for a new cable, 2 blocks to the gas station for a (literal) handful of grease, then 5 miles home to do the swap.

I only had to stop for a few traffic lights, then it's: turn engine off, trans in 1st, light turns green, turn the key and hold, once the engine starts running on its own, release the key and you're moving at about 3mph. Accelerate to a nice speed, ease off the gas just a bit, pop the shifter out of 1st, when the revs come down *just* enough, ever-so-gently slip it into 2nd. Repeat as necessary. If possible, shift down to 1st well before the red light and just idle up to it, praying for it to change before you get there.

Shifting Without Clutch...

Reply #6 – November 13, 2005, 03:22:39 PM

I had the same experience as Masterblaster when the "rag coupling" that held the clutch linkage in my "63 Rambler broke.
I had plenty of practice double clutching when I was in the service.
Military trucks at the time had non-syncronized (crash box) trannies.
The GMC 2 1/2 ton 6x6 droop snoots, the Dodge weapons carriers and Dodge personnel carriers.

Shifting Without Clutch...

Reply #7 – November 13, 2005, 08:03:04 PM

It does not hurt the tranny. If you grind gears or you are on the gas between shifts you can hurt it. Other than that, no.

James

Shifting Without Clutch...

Reply #8 – November 13, 2005, 11:29:01 PM

Well, is pretty easy to do in the F-150 .Only take off and 2-3-4 and 5 when needed are spaced every 10 km/h of speed. 2 at 20, 3 at 30 , 4 at 40 km/h .....OD starts at 60 km/h , of course, without acelerating...

Shifting Without Clutch...

Reply #9 – November 15, 2005, 10:16:43 PM

Shifting without the clutch, or floating gears, is primarily ment for crash box transmitions in large trucks. In these trucks, the shifts are very close together (RPM wise) so little if any time is waisted in comparison to double clutching. At work I drive highway tractors and other large trucks, and I float gears so often, I don;t even remember how to double clutch efficiently.

However, in a syncronized transmition, the perfect float is very difficult. If you are pushing the stick against a gear while waiting for the rpm;s to drop you are wearing out the syncro: even if there is no noise or grinding. Unlike a crash box, which will easily grind if your 50rpm off, a syncronized trans gives no warning that your shift / rpm is misaligned, and you are doing damage. Also, unless the speeds are precisly matched (difficult with only 5 gears) the syncros are really binding as they fight to bring the gear up to speed of the main shaft from the engine, wearing them out quickly.

I'm not saying don;t float gears, just be careful. Many have needed rebuilds because they tried.