Sing This - Page 3

Re: Sing This

Reply #30 – October 04, 2005, 12:09:11 AM

A fox TC wouldn't even begin to meet safety and emissions standards for new cars today. Airbags? Hello? Petition Ford all you want, ask 'em to make an all-aluminum 427 cammer, and tell 'em you want it for $2k, you'll get just as much of a response that way. Ford Motor Company relies on market research to choose what direction to go in terms of design, not a group of misfit car enthusiasts.

Re: Sing This

Reply #31 – October 04, 2005, 12:43:58 AM

Quote from: Ifixyawata

A fox TC wouldn't even begin to meet safety and emissions standards for new cars today. Airbags? Hello? Petition Ford all you want, ask 'em to make an all-aluminum 427 cammer, and tell 'em you want it for $2k, you'll get just as much of a response that way. Ford Motor Company relies on market research to choose what direction to go in terms of design, not a group of misfit car enthusiasts.

well oviously you didn't get the point, wishfull thinking indeed but say if they were going to bring it back i think they would change the engine's emissions thanks to new technology...

Re: Sing This

Reply #32 – October 04, 2005, 01:30:12 AM

If they brought it back they'd change the entire thing. The only thing that has a chance of coming back is a name. And the T-bird has probably already made it's final comeback.

Re: Sing This

Reply #33 – October 04, 2005, 04:47:46 PM

The catera is the biggest peice of shiznit on the road. Yes built on the gm2800 platform, but no ls1 option. The catera has the open v6 in it that downright sucks. The Ausies get the ecotec gm v6 supercharged and an ls1 option.

Mustangs use to get exported to australia but I don't know if they still do. Two door coupes don't sell well in croc hunter land. Hence the Commodore being the best selling car there.

If ford made a new tc it would compete with the now extinct srt4. So why would they do that. American car designers are going out it seems.

If I buy a new car it would be a 350z. So shoot me.

Re: Sing This

Reply #34 – October 04, 2005, 05:03:16 PM

A TC wouldn't compete with an SRT4! Monte Carlo SS, maybe, but not a hi-po econo sedan.

And the point is not that the Catera was as good as the GTO, just that sourcing from Aussieland didn't start with the Lumina Goat.

If I were to buy a new car, it would be an R32 (if they sold in Canada, that is).

Re: Sing This

Reply #35 – October 04, 2005, 06:10:47 PM

Quote from: oldraven

A TC wouldn't compete with an SRT4! Monte Carlo SS, maybe, but not a hi-po econo sedan.

And the point is not that the Catera was as good as the GTO, just that sourcing from Aussieland didn't start with the Lumina Goat.

If I were to buy a new car, it would be an R32 (if they sold in Canada, that is).

and how would you know this....say if they even were bringing it back how would you know what Ford would to do to it?

Re: Sing This

Reply #36 – October 04, 2005, 06:12:19 PM

Quote from: CougarSE

The catera is the biggest peice of shiznit on the road. Yes built on the gm2800 platform, but no ls1 option. The catera has the open v6 in it that downright sucks. The Ausies get the ecotec gm v6 supercharged and an ls1 option.

Mustangs use to get exported to australia but I don't know if they still do. Two door coupes don't sell well in croc hunter land. Hence the Commodore being the best selling car there.

If ford made a new tc it would compete with the now extinct srt4. So why would they do that. American car designers are going out it seems.

If I buy a new car it would be a 350z. So shoot me.

why a 350z...iid like a mustang gt, supercharge it put on a exhaust and a chip and theres 400-450 hp

Re: Sing This

Reply #37 – October 04, 2005, 09:55:24 PM

Quote from: Turbo-Bird

and how would you know this....say if they even were bringing it back how would you know what Ford would to do to it?

Why would Ford put their one time flagship (Munchtangs have never been a flagship for Ford, and up until the GT showed up, it was the T-bird) up against a Neon? If anything, the SVT Focus was as close as Ford was going to get to the SRT-4. The T-bird is their luxury coupe model, not a sport compact.

That's how I know.

You do know this hypothetical rebirth of a car that would never sell in today's market is hardly a reason to get upset, right?

And scratch the R32. I'd get a turbo Solstice for $24k.

Re: Sing This

Reply #38 – October 04, 2005, 11:35:27 PM

Quote from: oldraven

The T-bird is their luxury coupe model, not a sport compact.

That's how I know.

Hmm think that one over harder. Look at the Cougar. The Tbird is fading away, and fast. Ford could do it some good, but they wont.

Quote

why a 350z...id like a mustang gt, supercharge it put on a exhaust and a chip and theres 400-450 hp

Same reason we like our fancy foxes. You wan't that mustang and so does everyone else and there dogs. Plus I hold a special place in my heart for Nissan, one of those "my first car things."

Re: Sing This

Reply #39 – October 05, 2005, 10:15:55 AM

Quote from: CougarSE

Hmm think that one over harder. Look at the Cougar. The Tbird is fading away, and fast. Ford could do it some good, but they wont.

Well, the Cougar was a smallish sports coupe when it started life. And this new SC Cougar has also been quite a flop. I wouldn't put it passed Ford to do something really stupid with the T-bird (retro), but I can't see them sticking a name that's meant RWD luxo barge coupe for 48 years on a FWD compact. Not one used so recently at any rate. Also remember, the last time they made a small T-bird ('55-57) it sold like shiznit. The retro bird copied that car, but they still wouldn't make it small again, and left it RWD. Again, though, it sold like shiznit.

The best selling T-birds were the Mustang based ones. They need to remember that and try again.

Re: Sing This

Reply #40 – October 06, 2005, 12:27:15 AM

Quote

The best selling T-birds were the Mustang based ones. They need to remember that and try again.

I agree with this, but they couldn't use either the T-Bird or Cougar name. They are both ruined.

I also havn't even read the article yet so I'm not so sure what this new tbird would be.

Re: Sing This

Reply #41 – October 06, 2005, 10:41:16 AM

Quote from: CougarSE

I also havn't even read the article yet so I'm not so sure what this new tbird would be.

It's not a new T-bird. This petition is asking Ford to put the '87 TC back into production. :disappoin

Re: Sing This

Reply #42 – October 06, 2005, 12:05:15 PM

Quote

The best selling T-birds were the Mustang based ones. They need to remember that and try again.

Actually I think you'd find that the best selling T-Bird, by far, was the '78 model - at least according to a book on T-Birds I've got. The Fox-based 'Birds sold well, but never as well as the 77-79 models.

And techically, no 'Bird was ever based on a Mustang - the fox chassis was originally designed for the Fairmont/Zephyr, so both the Mustangs and T-Birds were based on that. If you wanna get really technical, the S197 platform is loosely based on the DEW98, which underpins the retro T-Bird and Lincoln LS, so the new Mustang is really T-Bird based :p

Re: Sing This

Reply #43 – October 06, 2005, 12:13:58 PM

And thus I have been told.

Re: Sing This

Reply #44 – October 06, 2005, 12:42:16 PM

Indeed you have :D

You know, when you think about it, that little 2.3 turbo compares fairly well to engines nearly 20 years newer. The thing belted out up to 210 horses (in SVO Mustang trim) with an iron block & head, a single cam, and two valves per cylinder. The SRT4 engine belts out 245 horses, but it's larger, much newer, more complicated, and has a DOHC 16 valve aluminum head. Just imagine if the 2.3t would have been developed for those years instead of being abandoned by Ford - I'm sure well over 250 horses would've been achieved long ago.

I don't think any new T-Bird would be aimed at the SRT4. Yes, the Cougar was tossed into the econo market for a few years, but it failed in the marketplace and the Cougar name was never really well defined anyway - through its history the Cougar was a luxury pony car, a large sedan, a large wagon, a midsize sedan, a midsize wagon, a midsize coupe, a large coupe, and a small coupe. The Cougar name was never really stuck to any specific market. The T-Bird, on the other hand, may have started and ended as a two-seater, and for a few years even had a few too many doors, but for the vast majority of its history it was a midsize or large coupe.

Will the T-Bird name ever come back? Hard to say. The GTO hasn't done really well in the market, but a lot of that is due to underwhelming styling at an overwhelming price. The Monte has done a bit better, but it's a mainstream, FWD, V6 mushbox. It has a V8 available now, but that V8 is still driving the wrong end of the car and I predict that all but the most diehard Chevy/NASCAR fans will avoid it. There are, after all, some much more compelling cars in the market for the same or less money (including GM's own more practical Impala SS and Pontiac GXP). The new Charger has sharply divided Mopar fans but seems to be doing well in the market and it certainly has the proper hardware, four doors or not. Its base V6 starts out with 50 more horses than Ford's top V6, and its Hemi simply embarrasses the naturally aspirated Ford 4.6.

So where would a potential new T-Bird fit in?

Would it be a midsize, RWD 2-door, larger than (but still based on) the Mustang, with perhaps an IRS, and compete with the GTO? Possible, and likely the option we'd all like to see, but doubtful considering the GTO's failure to ignite the market

Would it be a midsize or large RWD four-door sedan, possibly based on the DEW98 (Lincoln LS) chassis, to take on the Charger? This could be another possibility, but if such a car were to exist it would more likely be called a Crown Victoria, not a T-Bird.

Would it be a midsize or large, FWD 2-door, possibly based on the Five Hundred or more preferrably the Fusion chassis, with V6 and possibly V8 power (or forced induction V6), competing with the Monte Carlo? Possible, and even probable - if the T-Bird name comes back I'd put my money on this scenario. Large two-doors are a small market, so Ford is not going to invest a whole lot to get into that market. Whacking a couple of inches off a Fusion and losing two doors would make economic sense.

As you can imagine, Ford would have a lot of decisions to make before even deciding if a Thunderbird will ever fly again. one thing we can pretty much bank on, though, is that if a retro-based T-Bird ever comes again, it won't be based on the 80's models - at least not for another 20 years or so...