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alignment - toe

OK...I have done the 11" brake upgrade with a 92 ford spindle, new agx struts and new sport springs.  Now the alignment shop says that the toe portion of the alignment is way out. Could it be that my spindle from ebay is bent? Thanks for any input. :mad:

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #1 –
Quote
that the toe portion of the alignment is way out.
And... they don't know how to adjust it? I thought that's what alignment shops did.  :dunno:

Did they say it was too toed-out or toed-in?
Death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

1988 5.0 Bird, mostly stock, partly not, now gone to T-Bird heaven.
1990 Volvo 740GL. 114 tire-shredding horsies, baby!
 

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #2 –
Quote
And... they don't know how to adjust it? I thought that's what alignment shops did.


EXACTLY. If they can't handle it, might be time to hunt for a new alignment shop. Everything is going to be off once you separate the strut from the spindle, or the ball joint from the spindle. That's just how Fox cars work. It's their job to put you back into specs.

It doesn't happen often, but if a shop cannot seem to get an alignment correct they will have to drill out the factory rivets in the strut plates to allow further movement. It is possible you have a bent spindle but I'd get a second opinion, at the very least.

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #3 –
I never can remember the terminology, but I believe they were saying that the bottom of the driver side was too far in for adjustment. (Not happy)  Anyway I'm going to a collision shop to get a second opinion.  Maybe they can measure things to get it straight.

If it was for BAD luck I'd have no luck at all.

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #4 –
When I did my 11" conversion I ended up with over 2 inches of toe-in. That was using turbocoupe spindles on sport arms. Luckily I had enough tie rod length to align it. From what you described I'm guessing you're toe'd-in. If that's the case I would guess that for whatever reason there wasn't enough tie rod to push the wheels out for proper toe. If all your parts are OK and nothing is bent the only solution I can think of is to try a different A arm. The spindle, A arm and tie-rod dimensions were engineered together to acheive a specific geometry for the car that they were originally equiped on. Once you go mix matching stuff it doesn't always work out perfectly. So you have to experiment and find a combo that does work. The main thing is to make sure the parts you have are not damaged in any way and then to find out exactly what the problem is. I.e. tie-rods too short, etc... 

Checking toe at home is easy by the way. all you need is a tape measure and a way to scribe a line around your tire. Here's how:


1. Point your wheels straight ahead and jack up your front. Pound a nail through a board and spin your tire over the nail to scribe a line and then do the same thing on the other side. (If your tire has a straight water channel that runs the circumference of the tire you can skip this step.)

2. Measure the distance between the lines on the front side of the tires and record the measurement.

3. Measure the distance between the lines on the back side of the tires and record that measurement.

4. You're shooting for 1/16" less distance on the front measurement than the back. That would give you 1/16" toe-in.

For more info go to: http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/artcat.asp?CATID=2

Check out the "Toe Simplified" and "Set Toe Properly" articles.
Hope this helps...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
86 5.0 Turbocoupe (Katrina), 87 5.0 Sport (Rita)

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #5 –
If you end up not having enough tie-rod length to correct the toe-in back to spec, you can install SN95 tie-rods (inner and outer) to get the length you need. I would think the old tie-rods would be long enough, but who knows.

PS Anybody else get bothered by the fact that we pay full price for an alignment when the only spec. that can be changed in is the toe?

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #6 –
Thanks for the input. I will check things out a little closer this weekend.  Then Tuesday have another shop check the situation.

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #7 –
I was under the impression that only the spindles changed, so the stock tie rods should work. But every car is different. That could be the issue they're dealing with, in which case new inners from an SN95 would definitely have to be installed, and possibly the outers if need be.

Jeremy...you're right. But if you have caster/camber plates, you get your money's worth. I just got the convertible aligned last week for a measly $39.95 which included aligning to MM's specs that came with the c/c plates. I consider that to be a relative steal, even if it was just a stock alignment!

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #8 –
What's the difference in dimensions between the sn95 and ours? 

The cc plates from MM would they help in this case?

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #9 –
I don't think you need c/c plates...plenty of people have done the 11" brake conversion and not had to use them, nor have they needed new tie rods. That's why I don't understand what's going on with your situation. Usually when you switch to the 1987-88 control arms on a 1983-86, you find that everything is too short and end up using longer inner and outer tie rods. But you really didn't change things that much...it's simply a straigtforward 11" brake upgrade.

The SN95's had a wider track that used 1987-88 Cougar/T-Bird A-arms. That's why they had longer inners and outers.

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #10 –
Quote from: JeremyB

PS Anybody else get bothered by the fact that we pay full price for an alignment when the only spec. that can be changed in is the toe?


Not me... I do my own toe alignment, with this state of the art 1940s Oujia board... All you have to do is drive across it and bingo instant reading. (The pic is kinda big)
http://www.members.pen 15s.net/mr428/P2130168.JPG

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #11 –
tom,,
details?  i see the pic and the indicator.  what does it do for you and how do you react mechanically to its reading.  im interested :D


Can that tool be easily duplicated ?

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #12 –
The whole device isn't shown, but it looks like the kind of alignment gauge used about 6000 years ago. You drive across the thing, if the toe is wrong, the tire scrubbing action pulls moveable plates apart or together, the dial shows how much and which way. The one I remember from way back in a "Happy Bear Alignment" shop had a slotted base, with serrated strips sticking up through the slots.
Death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

1988 5.0 Bird, mostly stock, partly not, now gone to T-Bird heaven.
1990 Volvo 740GL. 114 tire-shredding horsies, baby!

Re: alignment - toe

Reply #13 –
Scott its basically as Baster Blaster says... If you had some acess to fairly heavy plates(it's weighs approx 50 lb) it probably could be duplicated. But it appears to be crimped together so dissambly for inspection ain't possible. Here's a complete pix(again large), its approx 3ft long..

I used it on the company '99 E250, that was toed so bad it was eating up the inside of the tires and wandered all over the road. When I ran across the board, it slammed the pointer as far as it could read. After I took 1 1/2 turns of toe out, it drove good and got 56K mi on a set of 50K tires. The Bird has always checked out OK so I've left it alone.

But the guy who gave it to me used it all the time and never had tire problems(till his middle daughter got her license). She liked to launch her olds Cutless(and his Ranchero) over a raised set of RR tracks out in the country. Went over there one day(after a paticularly large jump) and he had her swapping the complete front end out of a parts car into hers. Needless to say that cured her from jumping the RR.

http://www.members.pen 15s.net/mr428/P2130169.JPG