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Topic: My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea (Read 11022 times) previous topic - next topic

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

O.K., my plan is to install Fox Mustang GT front brakes (rotors, spindles, calipers), and SN-95 rear brakes.......here's the twist....I like my wheels, I don't want to swap them. Couldn't I do the brake swap on the rear while maintaining the 4 lug axles by simply having the 5 lug rotors re-drilled for 4 lug? The axles are allegedly the same length as an SN-95. SO, just re-drill them, swap the booster, MC and proportioning valve (along with necessary hoses and hardware) and call it a day.
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #1 –
Did you look into Mark VII discs? Or TC discs? I think they were all 4 lug still. You could keep your wheels and save $$$ without re drilling axles for 4 lugs. Not sure if theyre bigger and bettern but its just a thought...hope this helps.
1988 Mercury cougar XR7- 302 bored .030 over, gt40p heads, F303, AlexsParts spring and seal kit, explorer upper and lower intake, 70mm tb, maf conversion, 75mm maf, fenderwell cai, 24 lb injectors, T5 conversion, bbk h pipe, Slp lm, 3.73 rear, 4 wheel disc conversion, 5 lug conversion. :D :D

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #2 –
If the TC style rotors are the same as the SN-95, then that would be great. Mark VII is 5 lug.
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #3 –
According to coolcats, the 87-88 TC brake rotors were 10inch. The 94-98 mustang rotors were also 10inch. 99, they changed to 11 inch rotors. I think they said something about the tc rotors are vented while the mustang rotors are solid. Here's a link...
http://www.coolcats.net/modifying/4to5lug.html
1988 Mercury cougar XR7- 302 bored .030 over, gt40p heads, F303, AlexsParts spring and seal kit, explorer upper and lower intake, 70mm tb, maf conversion, 75mm maf, fenderwell cai, 24 lb injectors, T5 conversion, bbk h pipe, Slp lm, 3.73 rear, 4 wheel disc conversion, 5 lug conversion. :D :D

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #4 –
Vinnie, what you'd want to do is compare the TC rotor to the SN95 rotor to see if they have the same hat height.

If you had an SN95 rotor filled and drilled, it's going to have to be precise as the hub diameter on those (SN95) are bigger than the 4 lug stuff. Meaning, it will be centered via the studs rather than the "hub" on the axle.


That's why I suggested comparing the rotors side by side. In fact, I've got TC rotors AND Sn95 rotors, I could measure for you, along with pics and see if they're the same. Google probably has the info somewhere too if you've the patience to sift for it.

The diameter of the rotors are close enough that there's no real difference, the main things will be where the rotor's surface is in relation to the ..that is, if they're different, you'll have to move the caliper bracket to accommodate for it. That itself may be easy, or it may require cutting and welding...I'm not real keen on the rear disc stuff. The TC rear I have, I simply cut all the disc stuff, and modified things to go 5 lug drum brakes.


IIRC, when I took that TC rear from the yard, one of the calipers was seized, and the rotor on that side was chewed up, but if i can find the other.....
'98 Explorer 5.0
'20 Malibu (I know, Chevy, but, 35MPG. Let's go brandon, eh)

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #5 –
Quote from: FOX-XR7;448725
According to coolcats, the 87-88 TC brake rotors were 10inch. The 94-98 mustang rotors were also 10inch. 99, they changed to 11 inch rotors. I think they said something about the tc rotors are vented while the mustang rotors are solid. Here's a link...
http://www.coolcats.net/modifying/4to5lug.html

I think all non-Cobra SN95 rear brakes are the same. 10.5" solid discs with the Varga caliper.

SN95 Cobras used 11.65" vented discs, but use the same calipers as the non-Cobra versions.

Std Rear SN95 Rotor http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2035650&cc=1134201
Cobr Rear SN95 Rotor http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2033096&cc=1372643

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #6 –
The front and rear brakes are small on my car. I need better brakes front and rear. Drums don't bother me at all in the rear if they are larger, BUT, if I could go to SN-95 discs, I'd like to install them, and some drilled and slotted rotors front and rear as well. I can get all of the rear brake stuff  from an SN-95 at the boneyard for $80. Fronts, well, I gotta dig around and post for parts such as spindles, dust plates and all that. I'd need everything but the rotors for the front.
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #7 –
For the rear, to keep 4 lug, there really is only one option, IMO, TC rear.  It's straight bolt in, designed for the car, same track width, e-brake will work with proper cables, vented discs, and so on. 

For the front, make sure you get SVO calipers.  They are a direct replacement for Fox Mustang calipers but have bigger bores.  They were also on a lot of the bigger cars of the era, like the Crown Vic and variants, Continental, so they are plenty out there, and cheap.  I got a pair on closeout from Rockauto for $27 shipped.  They have a lot of 73mm bore calipers listed for less than $30 each.

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #8 –
I will do that. I need spindles and dust plates for the front, then I'll buy the rest locally. I have a TC rear in the car, but with drum brakes. That stuff has to go.
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #9 –
I think he's got a TC rear?

Vinnie, I've got at least one set of Mustang 5.0 spindles (the ones you'd want).....they came off my convertible. I'd have to dig them out and see what shape they're in, and if they have the dust shields still. I took 'em off and put 'em in storage, and honestly, didn't pay much attention to them.

I did the 5 lug ten inch drum swap using a TC rear and SN95 axles, but I'm not sure if the TC rear, TC axles and Sport drums and backing plates would all be proper to give a 10 inch drum package with 4 lug. I've been intending to measure for Gary, but almost always have something going on or some distraction around here..

I suppose one way to tell right off would be to simply pull an axle, then slide a TC axle in, and put the Sport drum over the studs and see. Either way, it'll either make or break it for Gary, as he wants an 8.8 for his car, and it will give you a clue as to your idea too.

All I'd have to do is find a point of reference and measure to the , as we know the TC and SN95 axles are the same overall length. I'd still mock up the TC axle and a Sport drum just to visually make sure there's no contact.

This will ONLY work with Sport backing plates though...they have a different "depth" than the 9" drum backing plates. (also is the reason why this 4 lug, big drum swap wouldn't work on a narrow width Mustang 8.8, unless you wanted a wider track width).

And if the TC axles will work, I have an extra set of Sport backing plates if you needed them.
'98 Explorer 5.0
'20 Malibu (I know, Chevy, but, 35MPG. Let's go brandon, eh)

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #10 –
The Sport's rear brakes wouldn't work. The TC is not as wide.........I think. Same axles though. But the 8.8 was a little narrower than the 7.5 I believe.

I'll piece it all together. Gotta find out what year SN-95 rear brakes will swp over. The front is easy, just the bigger Fox Stang brakes.
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #11 –
You're correct, the 7.5 housing is wider than the 8.8 housing, but the  to  width is identical, the 7.5 uses shorter axles to accomplish this.

 Ford and their oddball stuff. LOL


I'd either compare the TC discs to an SN95 disc, OR, see if the Sport rear drum will mate with a TC axle on the 8.8 housing and be in a proper location. I can test that for you...



As for a Mark VII rear, they are physically wider than a TC rear ( to , ALL 8.8 housings up to 1998 are the same width, themselves), the difference with the Mark 7 is the axles are even longer than the Tbird/Cougar axles, in regards to 8.8 rears.

In reality, any 8.8 (up to '98) housing will work, the track width is largely determined by axle length. There are basic configs, Fox Mustang 8.8, Tbird/Cougar 7.5, Tbird TC 8.8, SN95 Mustang 7.5/8.8 and Mark 7 8.8, of these, ONLY the Tbird/Cougar 7.5/TC 8.8 and SN95 combos have the same track width, not taking into consideration different offset wheel/tire combos.

What I need to do is go out and pull one of the SN95 axles from my TC rear, then slide a TC axle in, put a Sport drum on the studs and see if things match. If they do, we're on the right track, as that would mean that most likely, you could use a TC axle, TC rotor, and your choice of calipers, OR use the TC axles, Sport back plates, and Sport 4 lug drums and have a big drum rear.

Here in a bit when it cools off, I'll go pull the rear and check it out. It's kind of a concern for me as I have someone wanting the rear, but he's got a 4 lug car and would like to keep it so, so it wouldn't be a waste of my time ;)

I'll either test it tonight, or in the AM, and I'll post the results with pics. I've also got some stuff that a member was asking about to be photo'ed, I'm just waiting on the temps to come down a bit. Back is bothering me, but it hurts sitting inside, so may as well do a little and be productive too LOL.

Stay tuned...and hopefully my idea will pan out..
'98 Explorer 5.0
'20 Malibu (I know, Chevy, but, 35MPG. Let's go brandon, eh)

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #12 –
I was taught that the SN-95 rear axles are the exact same as ours.

The housing is narrower for the 8.8. Yes, the Sport's factory drum brake backing plate will bolt up, BUT, the drums are not deep enough to reach the backing plate due to the narrower housing, plus, all of my brake stuff from the Sport have been gone for years. I'm starting with nothing but little drum brakes out back, and little brakes up front.

Like I said, if bigger drums were readily available locally, I may do that, but, if I'm starting from scratch, and swapping the booster and MC anyway, why not go with discs?

Not that looks stop the car, because they dont, BUT, not only do they function well, they also will look good behind the 17 inch wheels with slotted and drilled rotors. I'd love to find the best functioning parts on a budget. Baer brakes are what I want, BUT, that's in the far distant dream world I like to visit from time to time when I feel like wishing big.
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #13 –
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;448756
You're correct, the 7.5 housing is wider than the 8.8 housing, but the  to  width is identical, the 7.5 uses shorter axles to accomplish this.
How this is possible??? If  to  is same, axles have to be same length(I am assuming width of carrier inside rearend is same width)...

With length of housings varying, what's different is measurement from bearing surface to axle ... A larger space is necessary to fit the the brackets and calipers vs backing plate & brake shoes...

AFAIK the five lug SN95 axles are same as TC..

My "bigger and slightly better brakes" idea

Reply #14 –
I wouldn't bother with 10" drums as far as an "upgrade" goes. I've had a few 86-88 cars with the 10" drums and you wouldn't notice a difference till you had to pull a wheel off.

My opinion, if you wanna leave it 4 lug, your stuck with tc stuff. Unless you can't find it sn-95 rear disks wouldn't be worth the extra hassle in my opinion.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com