'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Topic: '88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap. (Read 24228 times) previous topic - next topic

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #45 – April 01, 2015, 10:43:24 AM

As much as I'm anti-modmotor, that's pretty neat & price is reasonable...

Does say you'll need a controller for a automatic...

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #46 – April 01, 2015, 11:41:31 AM

They actually make kits with the control pack with a 4R70.... http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M8600M50BALT/Ford-Racing-Crate-Engine-Boss-302-Alternator-Kit-M-8600-M50B

TCI makes a 6 speed with a controller pack.

The extra 2 gears is about 2 grand when you buy the crate motor, control pack, alternator, and go the TCI route as opposed to the all in one with the 4R70.
The TCI unit is based on a 4L80E GM unit
http://www.tciauto.com/tc/transmission-packageshtml/?main=4

Decent gear spacing too with a legit 1:1 gear ratio unlike the stock Ford 6 speed.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #47 – April 01, 2015, 02:59:03 PM

Quote from: V8Demon;446665

I've seriously considered selling my Mustang and getting this for the Cougar.

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M6007M50/2011-Mustang-Ford-Racing-50L-Crate-Engine?utm_source=google-shopping&utm_medium=comparison-shopping&utm_campaign=google-shopping-v2&gclid=COLz5I6i1cQCFbIF7AodDRQAnw

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M6017A504V/2011-Mustang-Ford-Racing-50L-Crate-Engine-Controls-Pack

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M8600M50BALT/Ford-Racing-Crate-Engine-Boss-302-Alternator-Kit-M-8600-M50B

Slap a Whipple on it, stick it in front of one of the new 6 speed autos, run low 10's and get great mileage on the highway. Oh, and no issue on long road trips.....

That, in my opinion, is the one mod motor swap that's worth it. The only really comparable Windsor V8 would be a blown 408 stroker, which won't have near the reliability of a blown 5.0 Coyote.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #48 – April 03, 2015, 12:11:29 PM

The 300hp 3V beats the 320hp 4V everywhere except near max hp. The Coyote murders all other mod motors at all rpm! Obviously, the extra 8% displacement helps. However, even if you scale down the Coyote's power down 8%, it still edges out the other motors down low and runs away beyond 4500 rpm.

I'll never get to it, but the Coyote swap churns my butter. Mounds more expensive than a $700 Mark VIII motor though!

Quote from: V8Demon;446672

They actually make kits with the control pack with a 4R70.... http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M8600M50BALT/Ford-Racing-Crate-Engine-Boss-302-Alternator-Kit-M-8600-M50B

TCI makes a 6 speed with a controller pack.

The extra 2 gears is about 2 grand when you buy the crate motor, control pack, alternator, and go the TCI route as opposed to the all in one with the 4R70.
The TCI unit is based on a 4L80E GM unit
http://www.tciauto.com/tc/transmission-packageshtml/?main=4

Decent gear spacing too with a legit 1:1 gear ratio unlike the stock Ford 6 speed.

$7600?! WOWWWWW!

I wonder why they took a 4L80E and added 2 gears rather than use a 6L80. IRRC, the Baumann 4R70W controller isn't the best as it controls the transmission differently than the OEM, which can lead to reliability issues. I'd imagine the TCI offering is better in that regard.

It's a metric butt-ton of money (so is the Coyote), but I do like the idea of having a 6-sp auto option. 4-sp trannies are beyond archaic at this point, and a 6-sp speed gives you noticeable better driving experience (IMO) than a 5-sp, especially when you can control what gear it's in. I've driven an 8-sp Volvo, which was also nice! I don't think Chevy/Ford is making many >6sp autos in the longitudinal configuration, but I've not been keeping up with that.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #49 – April 03, 2015, 05:28:31 PM

Wife's Sorento is a 5 speed auto, you can also put it in a manual mode and shift it yourself. Now if I could put that engine and trans into a little 2 seat topless car...it would be so much fun I'd have to pay a tax for it..

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #50 – April 04, 2015, 11:11:13 AM

Here's a 4.6 2v swap into Turbo Coupe one of the members over on NATO just finished... You guys might just want to look it over before tackling such a swap... Pictures are in link at beginning of thread...

http://natomessageboard.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=247511#Post247511

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #51 – April 04, 2015, 04:27:14 PM

Jeremy: GM is offering an 8-speed auto in the Vettes and higher trim levels of the trucks. I think I remember reading that they were using the ZF unit but have developed their own 8L90 that's lighter and stronger than the 6-speed and in the ZR1 shifts faster than the Porsche PDK.

Beau: Those paddle shift/auto stick things are just a gimmick. I've only ever driven one car that had a an automatic tranny with manual shift, and that was an Audi A3 with the dual clutch tranny. "Normal" automatics are just too slow and mushy to approximate a manual. My father had a 2009 Sonata with the V6 that had that same tranny as the Sorrento, and it was no fun at all in manual mode. You'd tell it to shift, it would think about it for a few seconds to decide whether it was going to give you that shift or not, and then when (if) it finally did shift it was agonizingly soft and slow. Gimme a real manual any day...

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #52 – April 07, 2015, 09:00:39 AM

I suppose I am going to find out if a modular swap is worth it soon. lol

Got started on my 4.6 3v swap into my 87 TC last night.

I placed a spare 86-88 TC k-member under the 3v that was on an engine stand to see if the mount brackets would work with a 3v block.

Pass side looks easy to make custom engine mounts.:

Driver's side...not so easy. The water inlet hits the pedestal if the engine is too far back:

More details to come.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #53 – April 07, 2015, 02:00:35 PM

Alan, any reason you can't/won't use a k member from a '96-'04 Stang?

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #54 – April 07, 2015, 09:26:02 PM

Or maybe one from Maximum Motorsports or the like and make yourself a ton of room for a decent exhaust? Then again, if you have a welder and time on your hands I can see where this would be tempting.

Darren

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #55 – April 08, 2015, 11:18:11 AM

Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;446851

Alan, any reason you can't/won't use a k member from a '96-'04 Stang?

2 reasons.
The NHRA Super Stock class I want to eventually run this combo in requires a stock k-member. I could probably use a 96-04 one and no body would say anything tho.

The other reason is I want to use the 87 TC to build the engine brackets so that everything is a 100% bolt in, because I am entertaining the idea of putting that 4.6 into my 86 TC Stocker since it will soon be a NHRA legal Super Stocker anyways.
That same car could run a turbo 2.3 or a 4.6 CJ engine and not have to change k-members.

I did the 460 swap in the 87 TC and made one-off custom mounts and set the engine way back, so I am hoping I can repeat the feat here with the 4.6.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #56 – April 08, 2015, 11:26:28 AM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;446868

Or maybe one from Maximum Motorsports or the like and make yourself a ton of room for a decent exhaust? Then again, if you have a welder and time on your hands I can see where this would be tempting.

Darren

Darren:
I can't use an aftermarket k-member due to the class rules, but even if I wanted to, I wonder if it would have clearance issues.
Here is a link to the LMR blue Fairmont they put a 3v into and if you scroll down to the "2nd attempt" and 3rd attempt is shows how they had problems with an aftermarket one.
I'm sure MM has the best aftermarket k-member out there, but I can't use it anyways.

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/products/Fox-Body-Fairmont-3V-Motor-Swap-Engine-Installation

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #57 – April 08, 2015, 12:22:40 PM

Are the 3V block mounts the same as the 2V and 4V? If so, aside from the water outlet issue, some of my Type 9 mounts with the early lower brackets may get you in the ballpark. Not sure of other clearance issues, however.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #58 – April 08, 2015, 12:43:33 PM

Quote from: Chuck W;446883

Are the 3V block mounts the same as the 2V and 4V? If so, aside from the water outlet issue, some of my Type 9 mounts with the early lower brackets may get you in the ballpark. Not sure of other clearance issues, however.

According to this one can infer they at least will work.

Quote

I attempted the first installation with a stock k-member out of a 2004 Mustang GT, because the used tubular k-member I purchased from a buddy hadn't shown up yet. I used our urethane 4.6 motor mounts, installed the k-member in place of my 79's stock straight-six k-member and crossed my fingers. The engine fell right into place. It was as if it were made to be there. Score!....Or so I thought. Further inspection revealed that the header's collectors pointed directly at the firewall. This was a real bummer, because everything fit so well otherwise.

Quote

The NHRA Super Stock class I want to eventually run this combo in requires a stock k-member. I could probably use a 96-04 one and no body would say anything tho.

Technically, that's still stock

Go for it!

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #59 – April 08, 2015, 01:39:51 PM

Quote from: jlaidler;446429

I like the DOHC because it gets pretty good power, and I'm a real nerd for DOHC efficiency. Plus naturally aspirated, that engine in that size car would likely get good mileage. I'm hoping better than what the V6 gets at around 25 MPG. Also I'm kind of afraid of the costs and complications with doing ports etc with the 5.0 Windsor, especially if it'll kill my MPGs. If I had the money and resources I'd put in the Duratec 3.7 V6 with the Mustang 6-speed tranny. 305 HP and 31 MPG rather impresses me. Anyway I'd like to at least look at a couple comprehensive write ups for swapping the Mark VIII motor, just to see what I'd need to do as far as the suspension and fuel system and mounting brackets etc. Google just hasn't been so kind. Found a video from a guy who did the swap in his '97, but no details or schematics etc. Even if I eventually decide to abandon the project and just fix the current engine and rebuild the transmission, I really want to at least get the info. I was thinking stick in the axles from a Turbo Coupe and interior from a 5.0 with a floor shifter. Otherwise sticking in a 5.0, especially going simple with stock would give me nearly identical power to the V6 but leaden the handling with the extra weight and probably lose some MPGs.

I just sold my Mark VIII which weighed about 400lbs more than what the Tbird would weigh with the same engine and got between 17 in town 24-25 mpg on the highway. you may get a little better mpg but may not depending on your gear ratio.

One thing to remember on the newer V6 is that you sacrifice some low end torque and it will feel doggish compared to bigger displacement. 305hp is a number you'll rarely feel, 250 ft-lbs @2-3000 RPM you'll feel every day.