fulcrum vs stud heads

Topic: fulcrum vs stud heads (Read 3451 times) previous topic - next topic

fulcrum vs stud heads

February 16, 2014, 08:36:37 AM

school me here,,
what are the advantages to stud heads over fulcrum?

ive personally worked with both and found stud rockers time consuming to dial in but i dont really know what the benefit is by going that route.

i am killing myself tryng to get a set of heads for our build,, i see a set from last sept posted and they are Aluminum stud heads.

i have a set of 1.6 rollers to use which actually i have been trying to get rid of. if stud heads are better, then i can save $ and use what i have.,, the comp rollers i have + the heads i see for sale.

thoughts anyone?

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #1 – February 16, 2014, 08:59:21 AM

Better valve train stability. Plus you can run a higher lift cam with stud mount rockers. If I get some time later I'll post up the in depth details of why

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #2 – February 16, 2014, 11:31:17 AM

The other thing with studded heads is that you can utilize a girdle across the studs to lock them together which adds more stability to them.

Darren

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #3 – February 16, 2014, 01:15:56 PM

I assume you mean stud vs pedestal. I found stud mount infinitely easier to get my valve train setup perfectly. Shimming pedestals to get the right preload was a bigger pain than it should have been. With stud mount it was as simple as finding the right pushrod length and bolting the things down. With pedestal, you're also torquing down into the threads on the head, whereas stud does what studs do - you're torquing to the stud itself. Valve train sounds and runs great, plus I know it is more rigid than the pedestal mounts. I won't go back.

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #4 – March 05, 2014, 05:24:43 PM

working out a deal now..... got myself confused on the 4v 351 instead of the 302.

1969 4v casting with April 29th 1972 foundry date. (requires 18mm thread plug which availability concerns me but oh well)
302 / 71-74 / D1TZ-A,D2OE-BA / 58.2 / 1.78/1.45

upgrades are :
~Ferrea 6000 valves with 1.94 Intake & 1.6 exhaust with bronze guides
~approc 54CC which should be as discussed around 10:1 compression
~Isky adjustable guide plates
~Cnc ported by Power Heads
~beehive springs with unknown seat pressure (will check this myself, desire about 110lbs
~3/8'' studded

This allows me to save $ and use the 1.6 roller rockers I have in the F/S section.

as long as I do not use flat top pistons, I should clear well with a plain old HO cam.

thoughts....?

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #5 – March 05, 2014, 08:21:05 PM

I'd clay them to check for valve to piston clearance but other than that they should be good to go. I *think* the factory 351W 4V heads in '69 came with 1.84" intake and 1.54" exhaust valves. With the new valves and clean up the heads have gotten they should preform about like an iron GT40 head would.

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #6 – March 05, 2014, 11:44:24 PM

Yeah but these are 302 heads

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #7 – March 06, 2014, 07:00:21 AM

Tough

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #8 – March 06, 2014, 12:26:06 PM

Quote from: jcassity;430112

Yeah but these are 302 heads

289/302/351W heads are interchangeable. They all have the same bolt pattern and can be swapped around. The only difference is that the 289/302 blocks use 7/16" head bolts and the 351W uses 1/2" head bolts. If you use a 289/302 head on a 351W you have to drill out the head bolt holes to 1/2". If you use 351W heads on a 289/302 you need to use reducer washers to make the 1/2" holes smaller for the 7/16" bolts.

The reason why you may want to clay the clearance between the valves and pistons is valve size. Remember a stock Thunderbird/Cougar 5.0 has flat top pistons with no valve reliefs, unlike a 5.0 HO or Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0 which has pistons with valve reliefs from the factory. A HO cam with stock E7 heads (1.78" intake valves and 1.46" exhaust valves) has been proven to work fine on a stock Thunderbird/Cougar block. Increasing the valve sizes to 1.94" intake and 1.60" exhaust could potentially cause interference with the stock Thunderbird/Cougar pistons. Zonda has stock GT40 heads on the stock engine in his red 20th Anniversary Cougar with a HO cam. Those heads have 1.84" intake and 1.54" exhaust valves. He checked for clearance and ended up having to fly cut the pistons as the intake valve didn't have enough clearance to avoid hitting the piston. I'm pretty sure 1.94" intake valves are going to hit the stock Thunderbird/Cougar pistons with a HO cam.

Also it's not maximum camshaft lift that cause piston to valve issues but instead camshaft duration. A intake valve is at maximum lift when the piston is at the bottom of the cylinder. Camshaft duration dictates how long the valve is open. If the valve is open too long and the piston doesn't have enough clearance between it and the valve it's going to smack the valve on the way up from the bottom of the cylinder.

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #9 – March 06, 2014, 12:48:25 PM

When we say "setting up valvetrain" does this mean doing anything besides running a factory-provided stock camshaft? Because so far, all I've done with camshafts was installing an H.O. cam in the red car. I put my GT40's on, or in the earlier case, the E7's, used the pushrods that came with my S.O. 150-horse Cougar factory engine, put the rockers on, and just tightened down the bolts for the fulcrums (pedestal). How would any adjustment be accomplished? Shimming up the fulcrum piece?

As far as my own valve clearance....I never actually did a clay test or anything. Maybe it was actually bad enough that I could tell by oil residue marks on the valve stem tip that it wasn't going to be allowed as much downtravel. But to be safe I did flycut my flat-top S.O. block piston (let's be clear in that I think some people refer to these as "dished" for some reason? In the center of the piston there is a roughly 2" solid circular area that is recessed by not even a sixteenth of an inch. Don't know if that qualifies as a true "dish" like dished pistons that have a clear and obvious bowl shape in the top end)

Paul

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #10 – March 06, 2014, 01:00:12 PM

Let

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #11 – March 06, 2014, 01:57:56 PM

for my purposes, im collecting parts which will feed into a thread I have not started yet.

car will be my white coug in my sig which is going to my youngest offspring "Chance" , he wants this car badly and wants to go through all the pain and learning to do the car with me.
The white coug is an original 87 3.8L CFI

Have a 5.0 wire harness but ****I think I F'd up in buying it because its a 1988, and from what I understand its a unique one year only animal.
block will be from his brothers 88 birdie,, bored 20over, mains line bored new again
heads are D2OE-BA with beehive springs, 1.94 Intake & 1.6 exhaust & bronze guides, 3/8'' studded, guide plates, 54cc , professionally worked Im getting from 86T-bird
My on hand 1.6 roller rockers for stud heads which I have in the for sale section.,, gotta take that one down.
rotary parts will be new 331 or 347 with huge valve reliefs,, crank by scat if I recall correctly...haven't purchased yet.
cam is oem ho which I have two to select from (someone told me that there are two different HO grinds,, will dial indicator that and learn something new)
lower/upper intake will be one of two to choose from, cobra or PP intake I got from Flipnbird
eec will be SD HO (have three to choose, two stangs and one Mkvii)
motor mounts by chuck (which will eventually show up at my door)
transmission by KitzKat
I need to order the same set of headers Turbocoupe50 sold me years ago,, those worked so perfectly that I cant go any other way,, BBK's.
exhaust will be dual 1'' x 3'' square home made IMC conduit with round transitions as required to integrate the ler/cats

not a power house but good enough for a few more years of good service.

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #12 – March 06, 2014, 02:04:02 PM

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #13 – March 06, 2014, 02:08:56 PM

I did an edit while you were posting

fulcrum vs stud heads

Reply #14 – March 06, 2014, 03:25:43 PM

A few of us have the best(and worst) of both worlds...