Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Topic: Yeah. So I'm done with winter. (Read 25948 times) previous topic - next topic

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #180 – April 03, 2014, 10:01:14 AM

The ECU is a C3W1. Simply a revision of the A9P. I'm running the stock 02 sensor harness, engine harness, and EEC harness. I actually splurged and bought the Ford Racing Mass Air Conversion Kit when I did the swap over. 24 pound injectors and a 73 mm C&L meter. Pressure is @ 46. She likes it there. When I first got the car up and running, I used the 19's and jacked them to 60 PSI. Anything lower and the car would give codes for adaptive lean limit. 60 PSI on a 19 pound injector will flow just like a 24 at stock pressure (provided you have enough pump to back it up). The burned ECU is reason why I went new with mine. I'd have been furious if I went used only to have it not work or last only a short time.

The o2 sensor harness seems to be the sticking point with the conversions. Auto harness with auto ECU. Manual harness with manual ECU.

As per Joel5.0:

Quote

The O2 sensors harness "loop" or jumper, has to do with the system management of the NSS signal to pin 30. Manual transmission setups use the SIGRTN ground and AUTO transmission setups use the starter solenoid START circuit (which gets 12 vdc when an engine cranking condition occurs). The problem with the O2 harness is...... when a mix between the auto circuit and the manual SIGRTN dependent circuit (with the SIGRTN circuit inline) happens....... causing the circuit to burn in the ECM.

In my opinion, the one area where I believe Ford could have streamlined a bit in order to save money was with these harnesses. So many different types between the vehicles. SD vs Mass Air; Auto vs Manual. Moving pin locations for the thermactor system between SD and MA..... It would seem that even almost 30 years ago, they didn't want you messing with stuff. The Mustang 02 harness had the low oil light wiring as well. It's in a totally different location on the Cougarbirds (in the EEC harness) yet pins out to the same location.

I wonder what the part # is for a Cougar 5.0 harness? I thought I had that info at one point, but cannot find it. I have a spare 5.0 Cougar o2 harness in ONE of my parts boxes, but it's not one of the easily accessible ones, so I can't check to see if the part # sticker is still wrapped around it. The harness was in great shape so there's hope that it is.

I know you've seen this, but hey check it again. You may find some info. http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?33560-O2-sensor-issue&highlight=sensor+harness

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #181 – April 03, 2014, 11:16:52 AM

So if you have the wiring harness that came with your cougar from the factory, pre-mass air, then I don't know where your EEC, stock, would be getting the NSS signal. I haven't yet read about SD, only what they did with mass air. I believe it's pin 31 for NSS. Pin 31 needs to see 12V if used with an auto transmission computer A9P, to kick up the idle just a bit for the load of the torque converter when "in gear". Pin 31 needs to see GND if used with an A9L manual trans computer, to change the "idle down" characteristics for whether or not the shifter forks are in N, and possibly the clutch switch?

It sounds like this does NOT affect ability to start the vehicle, this is outside of the ECM...maybe it interlocks the multifunction switch? This seemed to be a consensus the one night I was jumping around the net. But depending on A9L / A9P you could either get a "hanging idle" or a stalling out/stumbling condition. The latter condition occurring with an auto trans, experienced when putting it in D or R, because the engine doesn't compensate for the load.

I have an SD harness in my car too. No loop wire. Everything stock. So I cut the wire to pin 31 and grounded it out going to the ECU, so it will always assume I'm in N and just let the engine idle as if I were stopped under all conditions which would cause me to pop my foot off the gas.

I have a Tremec 3550 and there are NO harnesses plugged into it save for the VSS on the speedo drive gear spot.

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #182 – April 03, 2014, 12:19:09 PM

87 Cougar 5.0 SD EEC wiring

91-93 Mustang 5.0 Mass Air ECU Pinout

Unless I'm missing something, the modification you speak of is not needed if you stay with an auto trans. The directions for the Mass Air Conversion from Ford Racing may shed some light....
My car KNOWS when there is a load on it. It could be in the middle of a REAL grumpy surge in idle and if I switch it into R or D, it smoothes right out. I've pondered swapping it all out for a mass air harness and he go harness from a mustang if I can find some Nos stuff.

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #183 – April 03, 2014, 02:29:15 PM

Pin 30. That's it. I was close lol.

But yes, it appears that if staying with AT, and using an A9P, it will work since it gets the 12V signal from the starting/charging system. Which I forgot that I read just last week in that one guy's rambling post I saved. Where people fry ECU's is using an A9L here, where that unit may/may not deal well with the 12V input there, where it expects to just be grounded on pin 30 (in the case of MT where the circuit shown in the "91-93" diagram goes to either the NSS or CPS).

With an A9P in a stick car, with everything hooked up correctly (assuming all wiring is there), the ECU will receive ground where it expects 12V, and do nothing when the transmission is engaged, causing stumble/stall under load.

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #184 – April 03, 2014, 02:58:19 PM

Hmm it's got to be something with the wiring or the engine control/sensors. My Thunderbird just has the MAF wires added to the harness and two pins moved and it's fine. I just got a MAF connector pigtail from the junk yard and some EEC-IV pins and swapped it into the car following the directions from CoolCats. The system only throws a code 95 in KOEO (never ran the wire) and 44, 94 in KOER (Thermactor is gone). I've even running the same C&L MAF you are with the stock airbox. Are you sure the idle speed is correct? I had to set mine with a tach/dwell meter to 750rpms hot idle to eliminate and cold start issues. Before I did that on a cold start (below 50* outside after sitting overnight) the car would be grumpy and idle surge for about 30-45 seconds. It never stalled but is was grumpy. Do you still have the fuel pressure set at 46psi with the 24lb injectors? I've got a bone stock (4 year old) Motorcraft fuel pressure regulator on my Thunderbird. Fuel pressure is at the factory spec (39psi non adjustable) and it runs fine.

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #185 – April 03, 2014, 03:25:49 PM

Yup 46 psi. Funny youention temps cause in the warm weather she's fine. I went over the car thoroughly the other day and found a bare wire that I fixed and my brake booster vacuum line was hard and cracked. Changed it out. Pedal feel improved. Didn't have any effect on the idle. I'll pull the connectors and give them a good once over. Its been a few years.

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #186 – April 03, 2014, 03:53:11 PM

Try bumping the idle with a tach/dwell meter hooked up to verify engine speed. Joel on SBFTech suggested I try setting it to 750rpms hot and it has worked fine at that speed. Just make sure you set it with the engine at operating temp. That grumpy idle/start when it's cold outside (below 50*) went away.

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #187 – April 03, 2014, 04:49:14 PM

I've never tried the process to teach the idle...will have to go look it up, don't remember. But it does in fact work though?

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #188 – April 03, 2014, 04:53:01 PM

It's right around there now once its warmed up and steady. Base idle resets are not really doing anything at this point.... I got a gut feeling I'm gonna find something else wrong. We'll see.

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #189 – April 03, 2014, 04:58:30 PM

I've never actually set an idle or let the computer learn on, though my cars have all been stock so far. a lumpier cam might change things there. i just unplug the iac still it starts stumbling and then plug it in and drive it.

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #190 – April 03, 2014, 06:28:07 PM

Quote from: V8Demon;431774

It's right around there now once its warmed up and steady. Base idle resets are not really doing anything at this point.... I got a gut feeling I'm gonna find something else wrong. We'll see.

Well it is probably some sort of electrical issue. How old is the ECT sensor? They can not throw a code yet still be off. If it falls in the OHM spec range though it's probably ok. That's all I've got.

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #191 – April 03, 2014, 06:29:18 PM

Quote from: Haystack;431775

I've never actually set an idle or let the computer learn on, though my cars have all been stock so far. a lumpier cam might change things there. i just unplug the iac still it starts stumbling and then plug it in and drive it.

I've tried that but it doesn't always work with modified cars. I've had my best luck setting idle speed with an actual tach/dwell meter.

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #192 – April 13, 2014, 11:58:42 AM

Are they $#%$$ kidding me with this forecast?

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #193 – April 13, 2014, 06:50:48 PM

Quote from: CoogarXR;432279

Are they $#%$$ kidding me with this forecast?

:wtf:

It was 70* here at 11am. By 2pm it was 50*. As of right now (5:50pm) it's still 50*. Spring is fun eh?

Yeah. So I'm done with winter.

Reply #194 – April 14, 2014, 06:27:30 AM

Quote from: CoogarXR;432279

Are they $#%$$ kidding me with this forecast?

Yeah, same here. Sunburn on my shoulders from Saturday. Gonna be pretty cold Tuesday. It just keeps hanging on.