Timing a possessed Cougar.

Topic: Timing a possessed Cougar. (Read 13052 times) previous topic - next topic

Timing a possessed Cougar.

November 19, 2012, 07:38:41 PM

I took the old Craftsman timing light and engine buttstuffyzer out of the shed today and found out my engine buttstuffyzer is dead, it will only tell me voltage. I started the car it idles nice and revs-up nice until it warms up. I figure I can at least get an idea where the timing is at, so I hook up the timing light and start the car get it idling what sounds like about 600 RPM give or take. I grab the old trusty timing light and it is idling at about 10 degrees after TDC (????).

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #1 – November 20, 2012, 01:29:08 AM

You should free idle around 950, and between 650 and 750 in gear. Ask me how I know, I'll tell you a long and troubling story. If you're ATDC, you need to make about 20 degrees adjustment, factory is 10 BTDC, but all us 5.0 guys like 12 or 14 BTDC. If you're running a MSD ignition (as in your other thread), you'll need to disable timing advance first, and I hope YOU know how to do that, because I've never worked with one. (Remove SPOut connector plug near the distributor on your old TFI IV system). Your ear will tell you its idled too high, but you've got to go off of your loaded idle (in drive, foot on brake, 0 MPH).

DON'T TOUCH THE IDLE STOP SCREW whatever you do. You'll screw it up and never get it exactly right again. (once again, ask me how I know)

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #2 – November 20, 2012, 04:04:50 AM

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,1031.0.html

This is the correct base idle reset procedure. And you you can screw with the idel set screw, I have everytime.

Here is a link that shows how to reset your timing correctly.

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/help-with-timing.800259/

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #3 – November 20, 2012, 05:40:12 AM

Ok not brain surgery. You can set your timing by hooking the light to #1 plug. Pull the SPOUT out and time the thing to 10-12* BTDC. Do you know how to do this and do you know how to read the DEGREES on the WHEEL and which way is late and early. Ok if so time it and if the TFI is not somewhere near 4 o'clock. You need to index it this way. That is accomplished by removing it and move it a tooth ADVANCED According to you you are LATE!!! With that if all goes well tighten the DIZZY bolt and never do it again. I cant take the stress!!! The idle is set by disconnecting the IAC setting the MIN IDLE SCREW to 600-700 RPM then set the TPS to .6-1.0. Dont go crazy with this setting as it makes no difference whatsoever as long as it is somewhere in these parameters.. Let the car settle down drive it a bit . Recheck it once again and if it is ok the adjustments are ok. I normally recheck both voltage and idle speed with IAC disconnected twice. If it idles good and at about 750-800 RPM. Tighten the TPS and never set it again. Once again i cant take the STRESS!!

NOTE all settings are with a HOT engine

:hick:

:hick:

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #4 – November 20, 2012, 07:31:06 AM

Unless he's messed with the base idle, already, there's no need to overload him with info on the procedure to reset it. He ear timed it according to how the idle sounded, and now it's timed like balls. The point was for him to understand that the free idle is going to sound like it's too high, and not to base any tuning decision on that. By his own testimony he's an EFI n00b. By telling him more than he's asking for, you're setting him up for another nightmare thread of confusion and frustration.
86, if you haven't adjusted the idle screw, DON'T. Just time it, drive it, double check it and drink beer.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #5 – November 20, 2012, 10:12:17 AM

Ok, I got all the information. Looks like I need to buy another buttstuffyzer, guess I'll go to Sears.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #6 – November 20, 2012, 10:52:04 AM

from my diy link below, here is my step by step redition of how to check and / or reset the timing
**do not remove / replace the distributor timing shorting plug with the engine running!!!

==========================================
Distributor check and reset

remove #1 plug
insert a decent wad of tissue paper tightly in the spark plug hole
quickly bump engine over until you hear the tissue paper pop out
you are now on compression stroke for number one cyl but not tdc
looking directly at the crank pully rotate the crank CW until pointer is on tdc
as you trun your crank, use a narrow screwdriver in the plug hole and touching the piston
as you rotate the crank, the screwdriver will rise as you hold it.
you will feel a flat area where nothing happens then it changes
go back to where you were and line back up to where the piston is tdc.
if the pass valve cover is off, both #1 rockers should be kinda loose
remove dizzy cap and rotor should be pointing directly at number 1 post
if its ahead or behind, you are off and dizzy needs reset.
**if its off by like a half inch or so, then dont pull the dizzy, just adjust by advance or retarding.
The proper or typical look of a dizzy is the rotor point at number one post and the TFI pointing towards
the drivers front corner. (this is just my opinion). After the dizzy is checked, you have room to advance either
direction.

RESET
remove 1/2 bolt,keeper at the base of dizzy
remove tfi plug
the dizzy will be tight to get out at first cause of the oring at the base
be careful if you do not know whos been in your motor before.
its possible the oil pump shaft may not have the keeper on
if it does not, the oil pump shaft may fall down into the timing cover/oil pan
if this happens, your screwed. just install another pump drive shaft or tear the motor down
there is no way to tell if the little slip on keeper is installed or not.
you can only tell if the motor is opened up.
Gently rotate the dizzy back and forth while trying to lift it.
lube up the oring with grease at the base of the dizzy and the hole
when you get it out, guess / estimate your location/orientation of the rotor.
its a good idea to look at other engines as to how their dizzy sits
the orientation of the tfi is important for setting the timing later.
drop the dizzy and fully seat it.
check to see if it will be point to number 1 post
if it does, snug on the keep / bolt and use your timing light to adjust.
set timing to 10deg btdc or whatever you prefer.

**sometimes you may have to nudge the crank either cw or ccw a wee bit to get the hex shaped
oil pump shaft to mate up inside the dizzy shaft. this gets tricky and if you cant get the dizzy to seat,
you gotta keep tinkering with the crank either direction while trying to seat the dizzy.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #7 – November 20, 2012, 10:55:53 AM

throttle position sensor test( this is very important,, !!!!

________________________________
tps test throttle position sensor
1 location-- vertical mounted on pass side of CFI with org/blk/grn wires.
Probe the green wire with positive lead of a meter and ground out
the black lead of your meter.

2 turn ign sw on ,, no start

3 the voltage reading on your meter should be around .5-.9 vdc.

4 operate the throttle linkage very very very slowly and note increase in voltage. Your increase should be smooth with no jumping and it should top out at around 4.6 vdc.

notes..
It is best to use an buttstuffog (needle type) meter when doing this step because it will detect flat or open spots on the variable resiseter (tps) better than the digital types.
you can bench test the tps buy hooking up to the green and black then black to org and measuring resistance and the two readings should match. The green wire is the center tap of the variable resistor. The resistance reading will be proportional to what you see in dc volts.

if you find your low end voltage is at or above one volt,, use a chainsaw file to file out the mounting holes so that you can mount and adjust the tps CCw to achieve the "less than a volt" goal.

when installing the tps,, lay it in place but slightly clockwise,, seat the tps then rotate it ccw to line up the mounting screws. There is a little pin up in the likage that will put your tps in a bind if you dont do this correctly. You cant just lay it on and bolt it down any old way.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #8 – November 20, 2012, 11:12:08 AM

Quote from: TOM Renzo;402881

TPS to .6-1.0. Dont go crazy with this setting as it makes no difference whatsoever as long as it is somewhere in these parameters..

careful tom,, none of the newer TPS's i have see have oval mounting holes.... only seen them on the older escorts and on the turbo coupes.
you cant "set" a 5.0 tps unless you modify the mounting holes with a rat tail file.

another interesting note, you can go to the parts counter and have a dozen TPS's in front of you and all of them will act differntly.
what i do is buy the TPS that has the "highest internal resistance". I measure from the black and yellow wire with my ohm meter, this gives me the finer adjustment when dialing in the tps to ***less than a volt dc from the green wire to the black ground or chassis ground.

86~
the hold down screws on the tps are sorta like APEX heads in design. you may have difficulty loosening them up unless you lay down on the screw driver. they are not your run of the mill phillups heads if you look close. not sure why ford did this but it is what it is.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #9 – November 20, 2012, 12:04:57 PM

I'm still working on getting codes from my last thread. All I have got so far is 4 beeps in a row and then it stopped. Good news is, the car starts right up.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #10 – November 20, 2012, 01:19:20 PM

Still having no luck with codes, The idle did drop down when I disconnected the IAC valve, pulled the spout out. Tried to get the timing closer to 10 degrees before top dead center and the car would not start. Dumb question: Is there any way the harmonic dampener moved?

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #11 – November 20, 2012, 01:43:51 PM

Jay i am well aware of the TPS and i found that by removing the sleeve and ovaling out the sensor is best. Be careful of having a sensor with to much RESISTANCE OVERALL. It lags the response time of throttle opening and enriching up mixture. A narrow band TPS is best as i have messed with this. As the matter of fact FORD used to show 5 different TPS sensors and consolidated them to one number. Also your cruse parameters will get lean with to much of a broad resistance of the sensor. The ECM sees less throttle opening as with a low overall resistance it sees more in the mid range. We have dun dyno testing on this and found out response time is better the lower the overall resistance is. By the way the mounting screws are TRI LOBAL and PIZEO NOT PHILLIPS. I trash the screws re-tap to clean out the loctite from the factory and replace them with HEX NUT ONES. Makes setting a breeze. Sometimes i remove the sleeves to allow adjustment and a chain saw file finishes the job nicely with a camed up engine. I also just snug the lower one and use the upper to tighten it up. But as you say the factory sets it and it in fact does not have a slot. That is in my view something the owner or tuner has to decide when tuning. So 86 just clean the IAC and test it for leaks. I have yet had the privilege of testing an older IAC that was not bypassing. They also have to be tuned. If you guys like i will start a post on IAC TUNING. It just might explain some mysteries about the VALVE. Other than that disconnect the IAC and adjust MIN idle to 600-700 RPM and you are DUN!!!

This is the only way to clean an IAC. Also it is the only way to tune it properly!!!

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #12 – November 20, 2012, 02:49:01 PM

Hey guy's, remember me?? No codes, car won't start unless at 10 degrees ATDC, and I only have a digital meter. So Tom, are you suggesting I take my IAC valve apart like in the picture and clean it? I have already taken it off and sprayed it with carb. cleaner about 3 days ago.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #13 – November 20, 2012, 03:18:18 PM

Do you still have the original distributor and associated parts?

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #14 – November 20, 2012, 05:19:30 PM

I kept them for about 2 months after I got the car running with the new one. I got rid of it along with springs, shocks ect..