88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. December 01, 2011, 11:27:51 PM As with many older vehicles you will find that an electrical system begins to act sluggish. If you are driving in bad weather and have the wipers running; the blower and lights on---such as me, the accessories begin to slow down at traffic stops---particularly noticeable with turn signals. I had discussions this week with local parts places and they have given me several ideas: 1) Have the existing alternator rewound to produce higher amp output and 2) Change the Alternator to BAT wire to larger gauge. Problem with 2 is that the T-bird alternator has a wiring harness and one wire change will not work in this case. Has anyone addressed this problem. Oh, I have seen discussions on 3G alternators, but one parts place tested my alternator and battery and said they were within specs...? Seems silly to trash a functional alternator. Quote Selected
88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. Reply #1 – December 02, 2011, 12:04:20 AM Idling too slow? Quote Selected
88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. Reply #2 – December 02, 2011, 12:28:44 PM Quote from: softtouch;374401Idling too slow? I'm going to have to second this. Unless something is pulling more current than it is supposed to. With everything running, car idling, take a voltage reading on the battery, let us know what the reading is. Quote Selected
88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. Reply #3 – December 02, 2011, 05:57:13 PM Mostly d Quote Selected
88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. Reply #4 – December 02, 2011, 06:55:24 PM I would also check the voltage output at the alternator and then directly after all the so called "fuse links".The splices that are labled as "fuse link" are just that,, they are enviromentally seal splices. Corrosion and connection weakness could contribute to this as well as already said, engine idle.I tend to disagree a little here though, the wring off our alternators in stock fashion are just a bit too small imho or at the least they should have been flex and not stranded type wire.You might be best off to chill out on your car for a while and inspect / replace the primary downstream wiring from the main connector and beyond the fuse links as far as possible.I did a fuse link repair for someone here on the board and disected the splices and they look pretty good as far as factory assembly and precess goes, where they go bad is that they are certainly ****not*** able to withstand repeated bending, twisting, kinking or handling and such. the fuse links are just simple solid copper conductors that can easily be weakend by dressing in or bending of the harness itself.you just gotta take the time to inspect it all, Quote Selected
88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. Reply #5 – December 06, 2011, 11:17:36 PM Thanks for the comments. A local parts place checked the output and the battery-- and told me (as well as showed me) that the alternator and battery were up to specs. The voltage was 14.4 volts. As JCassidy comments--it's probably in the wiring or such. I actually have not put any time into checking it all. Probably will. It does not seem sensible to spend money on something that may not improve the situation. The car doesn't stall and the ALT light does not light, so I guess this is not a big deal. Just annoying. Quote Selected
88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. Reply #6 – December 07, 2011, 12:19:13 AM not to side track the issue but if you can, swap in a larger Amper Hour battery or borrow one that is larger in capacity.Doing this one small thing may be what you need to do. Heck, you may not have a large enough AH battery now. Some get fooled into cold cranking amps and thinking thats what your paying for when its really , CCA coupled with AH.Having a larger bucket of power stored in the battery increases the time frame the battery can deliver the highest potential over the distance required with less concern for voltage drop.just my 2c,, try a different battery and see what happens. Quote Selected
88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. Reply #8 – December 08, 2011, 03:06:53 AM not to get too technical here but i guess we could reverse engineer ford thinking.,,11.1 x total wire distance in feet x amps / .25vdFord logically is allowed to de-rate the ampacity of the alternator at 80% of 65A to approx 52AThey likely (as most industry standards allow) allowed for a 1/4V allowable drop from the alt to the battery.so11.1 constant for dc power copper x approx 6 total feet of wire from the alt to chassis x 52A / .25volts allowable drop= 13252 circular millimeters of copper required.The range to qualify as a #8 is 10381 to 16510KCMILThis wire installed in our cars is considered "in raceway" This wire in our cars "might" be 90deg C or better rated wire, however it is not flex, it is stranded.The electrons travel along the outer skin of each copper conductor within an insulated jacket. SOL-solid wire has one solid conductorStr-stranded wire has a few fairly stiff solid conductorsFX-flex has 10's of hundreds of tiny hair like conductorsFlex is going to be best because the electrons typically travel along the outer skin of a conductor to the load. The more conductors, the more surface area and current carrying capacity it has.#8 does not qualify as 70A unless its installed in a free air situation. The alt wiring in our cars are stranded from the alternator but suddenly at the fuse links , it is further reduced then stepped back up again for protection. The crimps are a typical corrosion or mechanical weakness, so yeah, checking the voltage difference is always the right thing to do.I disagree with you on battery AH though, the battery will deliver the power over a period of time when the alternator can not. I agree with on the other hand though that eventually the battery will equalize with the alternator at some point "if" the constant demand exceeds the additional AH power stored. Back on topic though,,,,,,,Check the headlamp switch, and swap it out with another known good unit.there are several resistive parts in there to include a main connector that has a couple wires that get pretty hot.Thats why there is a heat sync on the side. Perhaps you may find your answer right there as well.Use tom's example and note your voltage output at the alternator , then with your headlamps on bright, measure the voltage at your headlamp wiring.Use a stick pin to inject into the wire if you have to so you can have lights on as well as take a voltage reading.Im betting you'll see a number that might be unacceptable,,, we all do actually. I have .9 difference at my headlamps.The only fix is to rewire the car or certain circuits...kinda like what thunderchicken did with a remote fuse/relay box thus eliminating the headlamp switch problems. TC, correct me if i am wrong if your reading this. I totally disagree with the headlamp switch design, but it does work. Quote Selected
88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. Reply #10 – December 08, 2011, 06:33:04 PM A 50 Quote Selected
88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. Reply #11 – December 09, 2011, 04:59:34 PM Quote from: TOM Renzo;375006DC flows through the entire wire, therefore encountering less resistance..AC flows on the outer skin therefore encountering more resistance..Thanks J good discussion and helpful.Skin effect. I remember that from my Air Force days 60 years ago. The higher the frequency, the thinner the skin. Some radar equipment used hollow silver plated "wave guides" to carry the high frequency radar signal. Quote Selected
88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. Reply #12 – December 09, 2011, 05:43:08 PM I do Quote Selected
88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. Reply #13 – December 11, 2011, 01:08:07 AM Quote from: people.....electrical math..........holy.......I...don't...underst-:shoothead Quote Selected
88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. Reply #14 – December 12, 2011, 03:47:41 AM Ok, I said it nice one way,, gotta be an ass i suppose.OK internet observers,, 8awg will never ever be acceptable on a 70A circuit in any situation other than free air,, and especially in a dc application.The NEC still doesnt cover much about dc power up until the 2011 version, then it struck them that they to were not so smart,,, and had to ask themselves one day,, "what the hell is this Bellcore and Telcordia standards stuff all about".There is a sudden attempt for them to try and include new terms like "cable rack" and such with unrealistic "free" conditions when in effect they cant seem to get it completely right yet.sorry, you can know it all and this time your way wrong on your max ampacity for "in conduit or raceway" rating of an 8awg wire....just way too small Tom.6awg or better is what it should be today, back in 87 it was probably an uncontrolled or "lack of any standard" situation where car makers designed the electrical without any oversight. I do this stuff every day, design AC , -48v DC power systems , Gensets, rectifier plants, inverters, ups systems, battery strings wind, solar, FM200, building, hvac , isolated ground rings, ect. I design it all and there are so many things i have to have memorized just to survive.DC does have skin effect just like AC does...and a larger battery will produce power for a period of time compensating for a low recharge source over a period of time ~~~~~~~~after the coup de fouet effect. its clearly an attribute of storage as you stated but if your storage is low, then your obviously not making it above alternator float after the coup de fouet. The only way to really know is to not have an alternator online when testing this.All i was just trying to say is that i agreed with you about the voltage drop thing but to also see if his battery was also large enough or the right size.If you like that formula, save it cause you wont see it again. There arent many people out there who know how to even begin to size a dc conductor properly,, not even the NEC, but yet you must at a minimum comply with the NEC for #8 and 70A does not fit.I could go on how in one example 70A requires barely a #6 while the same circuit with sixtyfive loop feet of wire will require #2 but thats a different story. Quote Selected
Topic: 88 T-Bird 3.8-- Charging system issue. (Read 3971 times)
previous topic - next topic
