S197 -- Improved handling + Drag Launch in one convenient package.......Possible?

Topic: S197 -- Improved handling + Drag Launch in one convenient package.......Possible? (Read 4765 times) previous topic - next topic

S197 -- Improved handling + Drag Launch in one convenient package.......Possible?

March 24, 2011, 12:31:57 PM

I'm posting this here because some of you guys & gals on this site really know your stuff WRT suspension so here goes:

Between the locker and the drag radials I've noticed an inherent design flaw with the stock panhard rod setup. I some of it has to do with the tires being about an inch taller than stock. On sweeping bends on parkways and what not you can actually feel the rear of the car get a little bit sideways with the rear pushing outward if you give it a little gas to speed it along. Interestingly enough, the phenomena is worse with just a little bit of throttle as opposed to a full out stab to the floor. It's not enough to incite snap oversteer, but it does make me wary about the cars limitations. Like I said the taller tires are a reason as to my noticing, but I'm guessing that this has a good deal to do with the fact that the roll center on a panhard rod setup changes as you turn.

My proposed solution -- Watts link and a POSSIBLE 3/4"-1" drop all around. Nothing nuts but at the same time I don't want to pen 15 up the 60 foot times at the dragstrip. Why the Watts Link?

1. It keeps the rear centered. No lateral movement and no side loading on turns
2. Inherently more stable at the big end as opposed to a panhard rod (this is a great bonus with reduced tire pressure)

I want to keep it simple as far as shocks/struts so I was thinking about with Bilstein HD's in all 4 corners. I'm stumped on the springs......

I drive this car on the street so I need something with road manners that can gimme the best launch possible WITHOUT scaring me should I be on a bend in the rain on the way home.....

I haven't done much at all WRT suspension at this point. Only lower control arms with poly bushings which alleviated my wheelhop issues when I was N/A. I have a double adjustable upper and mount with rod links going on to properly adjust my pinion angle and the Watts Link is in the box just waiting to go on at the same time as the upper arm. I'll be doing just the arm and the Watts Link before my next trip to the dragstrip and the shocks/dampers at a later date (if at all)

Like I said though.....Stumped on the springs......I'd like to lower the car that wee bit AND not pen 15 up my 60 foot. Those 2 wants clash completely.....I really don't want to do a drag spring setup as I drive the car on the street and it sees the track only about 3 times a year. I'm not a fan of the bouncy-bounce ride of a drag setup over potholes....

Here's another kicker. I'd prefer a LINEAR rate spring as opposed to the progressive rate. Seems to be an impossible thing to find as far as the S197 is concerned in the slight drop height I was looking at. I'm to the point where I may just order a set of custom springs......I may just try a set of V6 springs out back and see what happens......

Anyway this is somewhat of a rant with the hopes that people will chime in with ideas.....If anyone knows of a good place to order custom springs from that would be nice as well.

Oh, and before someone suggests it -- I AM NOT CUTTING SPRINGS!!!

S197 -- Improved handling + Drag Launch in one convenient package.......Possible?

Reply #1 – April 06, 2011, 03:10:46 PM

After doing some research, I've found an option that will work nicely for me.
Check this out.....

http://mygtcs.com/mustang/documents/ford/1-GeneralInformation//100-01-Identification%20Codes-Description%20and%20Operation%2005-2008.pdf

Open the PDF file and scroll down to page 10 and it will give codes that correlate to specific part numbers for the front and rear springs the S197's came with from the factory. FWIW- my codes are GG for the front and BB for the rear.

Here's the charts for the spring specs:

Front Springs

Rear Springs

This shows I have the front springs with color code orange and the rear springs with color code blue. Seems switching to the yellow up front and light blue in the rear would give a wee drop. Some GT's had yellow up front, some orange. I'm unsure the deciding factor considering I'm a pretty stripped down deluxe model and received the taller of the 2 with the higher check load value. I'm wondering if it is dependent upon transmission WRT the GT's.....

The light blue springs are the same springs that are SUPPOSED to be in the rear of all of the Bullitt edition S197's (It's been found to be in some of the V6 cars as well). It is a spring that was designed earlier and if you poke around on the Bullitt owner forums you will find quite a few Bullitts that have different springs from the factory.

I do have one question as far as the charts and that is in regards to the column marked "Check Load." Is this the same thing as the spring load rating? Load Rating is entirely different from spring rate and not mentioned nearly enough. Knowing the load rating for the springs in my Cougar made it MUCH easier in choosing what I wanted. All other dimensions being equal a lower load rating will result in a lower ride height. To top it ALL off, it would appear that these springs with the same spring rate and lower free height/check load are in fact the EXACT springs in the Cobra Jet spring kit from Ford. They have the color codes of yellow and light blue respectively. The front springs are the EXACT same part #, the rears have an updated part # that is listed as the DIRECT replacement. LULZ. Guess the "drag strip only" springs are streetable after all......

I picked up a set of the Cobra Jet springs from Cj's Pony parts for $103 shipped (this is hands down the best price you will find). It'll be worth it to bring the ass of the car down a little. Reports of about .5-.75" are normal. That's about how much higher it sits than stock right now with the M&H's in the back. After verifying the part #'s and color codes -- they are in fact standard fair stuff and not a part that is specific only to the CJ cars.

I'm going to leave the front springs I have in for now and swap only the backs. That, the Watts link, and the adjustable upper control arm to get my pinion angle correct and I'll see how the car does as far as 60 foot times are concerned.

S197 -- Improved handling + Drag Launch in one convenient package.......Possible?

Reply #2 – April 06, 2011, 04:20:39 PM

Wow,

S197 -- Improved handling + Drag Launch in one convenient package.......Possible?

Reply #3 – April 06, 2011, 04:47:18 PM

Good info! I will be waiting here for your results.
Unfortunately we were just gettin really into the S197 stuff at KB when the bottom dropped out, and I havent had much opportunity or reason to keep up with it otherwise. Still interesting though.

S197 -- Improved handling + Drag Launch in one convenient package.......Possible?

Reply #4 – April 08, 2011, 04:46:37 PM

Putting everything in tomorrow. It's nice to have friend's who let you use their lifts.

S197 -- Improved handling + Drag Launch in one convenient package.......Possible?

Reply #5 – April 10, 2011, 08:14:01 PM

Anyway, everything is in. Conclusion: ME GUSTA WATTS LINK. ME GUSTA MUCHO!

The action where the rear would feel as if it would kick out on a bend with a little gas is gone. I think I can honestly say that the people who have told me this will help at the big end of the track are correct. The rear springs lowered the back end about a half an inch so I'm pretty much at the height the car was delivered to me with. I'm up in the air as to whether or not to install the newer front springs or leave mine. I think the slightly taller spring up front will help weight transfer so I'm leaning towards them staying.

I have nick-named the panhard bar I removed the salt shaker......seriously it sounds like one when you shake it.

Only took the one pic now. I'll snap more later.

S197 -- Improved handling + Drag Launch in one convenient package.......Possible?

Reply #6 – April 11, 2011, 08:19:31 AM

That car looks SICK under there. Very nice.

S197 -- Improved handling + Drag Launch in one convenient package.......Possible?

Reply #7 – September 14, 2011, 01:47:05 PM

Updating this. After quite a bit of research, I recently added some upper control arm relocation brackets from CHE to help with my instant center. Best thing about them is I can still use the stock mount holes. Use lower holes for drag race. Use the stock hole for a twisty course

The car already is easier to launch. Gonna see how she runs in November and then it'll be time for a higher stall torque converter. Looking to go with a 3800 stall.....

S197 -- Improved handling + Drag Launch in one convenient package.......Possible?

Reply #8 – September 14, 2011, 02:32:09 PM

Thanks for keeping us in the loop on your S197 setup. I like the watts link setup and think the CHE stuff is stellar.

Keep us in the know on your times. Do you have a baseline run?

S197 -- Improved handling + Drag Launch in one convenient package.......Possible?

Reply #9 – September 14, 2011, 02:38:26 PM

Before all the suspension stuff I ran a 12.2 @ 114..... That was with tire pressure @ 20 PSI as I dropped the pressure I've run slower with WORSE 60 foots... I was shallow staging and flashed the converter ( she prefers that to being loaded up). I've confirmed this on 2 separate dates with 18+ runs on each date. My best contact patch is @ 23 PSI with my wheel/tire combo. My first run out will be @ 20 PSI to gauge how she fairs and then I'm gonna bring it to 22. I figure after a good warmup, they'll swell to 23 or 24 PSI which is right where the sweet spot is oddly enough....