Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Topic: Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps (Read 9059 times) previous topic - next topic

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

December 29, 2010, 06:28:13 PM

Working on buying some parts for the T-bird and need some info guys.

My PS pump is on the way out and one of the high pressure lines has sprung a nice leak as well. I figure that with 18x,xxx miles it is high time to replace the pump and rack. I want to go ahead and do the 15:1 upgrade to further take advantage of my bigger wheel/tire combo and lowered stance.

My question is: Where would you guys recommend buying from? What brands have worked well for you? I usually buy all my stuff from Advance Auto but if other brands are superior, let me know!

I've not worked on a rack and pinion steering much (I've mostly worked on older style recirculating ball type setups like that found on my Chevelle and pickup trucks, etc). Everything I've ever had w/rack and pinon never gave me any trouble so I never had to wrench on it, lol. What else will I need besides the rack, pump, and hi-pressure lines? I assume there are rack bushings that I might as well replace while I'm in there.

I think I'm gonna change out the upper strut mounts too, they are clunking.

Thanks for the help guys.

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #1 – December 29, 2010, 06:34:24 PM

I personally have had good luck with A-1 Cardone , and they have lifetime warranty.
I know some people will not agree with me , but I can only speak for myself.

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #2 – January 01, 2011, 04:25:16 AM

I used a napa rack, it's probably a cardone to. So far no issues,but I don't get many miles on it. There is a lot of discussion about using the right pump for the 15-1 rack on here before. I used my stock pump. Definitely put new bushings in while it's out.

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #3 – January 01, 2011, 01:19:19 PM

My new rack for the 20th came from napa as well. had zero issues with fitting, its the higher ratio version as well.

Napa also sells the pump lines, good quality.

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #4 – January 01, 2011, 01:38:04 PM

Yeah, make sure you spec out a pump for the higher ratio rack...if you have a V8, one for a Fox 5.0 Stang will work, or an '88 Sport, etc.

Using the low pressure pump with the 15:1 rack=bad. ChuckW will verify this, as well as some others.

The quicker ratio rack is definitely worlds better than the 18:1 (i think it's 18:1..) unit...night and day difference. I almost feel mine is too twitchy, but of course I still need an alignment...not that that causes any problems, car doesn't run with the engine gone lol

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #5 – January 01, 2011, 03:12:34 PM

Thanks all. I do plan to change the pump and rack both to the 15:1 at the same time.

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #6 – January 02, 2011, 07:53:37 PM

For you guys that have the Cardone rack, can you shoot me a part number...I'm comparing/shopping around, want to make sure the one I'm looking at is the 15:1 ratio unit...
Thanks!

Edit, here's the number of the one I'm lookin' at: 22-207
There's also a "Without Performance Suspension" for about 10 bucks more, with double the core charge...it's number is 22-203T

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #7 – January 02, 2011, 08:02:37 PM

The 22-207 is the correct one

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #8 – January 02, 2011, 09:14:58 PM

im not sure what is being said here.
my 20th got changed to the higher ratio and i dont have any issues with the power steering pump.

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #9 – January 04, 2011, 12:07:19 PM

Just my 0.02 on this. I have replaced a few racks, pumps, and lines on my Fox cars and finally bit the bullet and installed the SN95 Mustang rack on both cars with the MM hybrid steering shaft and the stock Fox 5.0 Mustang power steering pump. What this does is get the over boosted feel of the Fox rack out of the car. The steering response is much better IMO and these racks can be found in an auto recyclers yard super cheap if you need to save a few dollars. The expensive part of the swap is the hybrid shaft from Maximum Motorsports but it is by far better than the stock rag joint and it kills the Flaming River replacement as far a function and it fit perfect with no mods to my headers. The cost break down for me was as follows:

Rack (A-1 Cardone at O'Reilly) - $102.99 (you will need a core)
Pump w/reservoir (A-1 Cardone at O'Reilly) - $46.99 (you will need a core) and its actually a $1 more for one without the reservoir.
MM Hybrid Shaft (http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_14&products_id=461) - $229.95 list and most MM dealers will knock some off
Low pressure line (used high pressure fuel line from O'Reilly) - $2.49 per foot, I bought two feet so I would have enough to get it to fit right.
High pressure line with A/C (O'Reilly) - $19.99

You will have to use the Fox inner tie rods off your Fox rack as the threads are SAE between the inner and outer tie rods on a Fox. The SN95 cars are metric threads between the tie rods but are the same thread as the Fox racks where the inner tie rods attach to the rack. They do not check the cores so you just slip your Fox rack back in the box and put the SN95 tie rod ends on it. If your inner tie rods are junk then just get new ones which are about $17 each in the house brand and $37 for the Moog units.

I took the opportunity to install a bump steer kit as both of my cars are pretty low but you still get a kit for a Fox car.

Darren

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #10 – January 04, 2011, 12:48:21 PM

AUTOZONE - LIFETIME WARRENTY FOR LIKE 80 BUCKS! - you don't need a receipt and you can return it to any store. I have used there remanufactured units and trust them greatly!

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #11 – January 04, 2011, 03:21:22 PM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;348340

Just my 0.02 on this. I have replaced a few racks, pumps, and lines on my Fox cars and finally bit the bullet and installed the SN95 Mustang rack on both cars with the MM hybrid steering shaft and the stock Fox 5.0 Mustang power steering pump. What this does is get the over boosted feel of the Fox rack out of the car. The steering response is much better IMO and these racks can be found in an auto recyclers yard super cheap if you need to save a few dollars. The expensive part of the swap is the hybrid shaft from Maximum Motorsports but it is by far better than the stock rag joint and it kills the Flaming River replacement as far a function and it fit perfect with no mods to my headers. The cost break down for me was as follows:

Rack (A-1 Cardone at O'Reilly) - $102.99 (you will need a core)
Pump w/reservoir (A-1 Cardone at O'Reilly) - $46.99 (you will need a core) and its actually a $1 more for one without the reservoir.
MM Hybrid Shaft (http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_14&products_id=461) - $229.95 list and most MM dealers will knock some off
Low pressure line (used high pressure fuel line from O'Reilly) - $2.49 per foot, I bought two feet so I would have enough to get it to fit right.
High pressure line with A/C (O'Reilly) - $19.99

You will have to use the Fox inner tie rods off your Fox rack as the threads are SAE between the inner and outer tie rods on a Fox. The SN95 cars are metric threads between the tie rods but are the same thread as the Fox racks where the inner tie rods attach to the rack. They do not check the cores so you just slip your Fox rack back in the box and put the SN95 tie rod ends on it. If your inner tie rods are junk then just get new ones which are about $17 each in the house brand and $37 for the Moog units.

I took the opportunity to install a bump steer kit as both of my cars are pretty low but you still get a kit for a Fox car.

Darren

Interesting writeup. I am still weighing my options before I buy all my parts. So what ratio are the SN95 racks? Are they even quicker than a 15:1 rack or is the difference in the pump?

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #12 – January 04, 2011, 10:53:53 PM

I am quoting Jack Hidley from Maximum Motorsports:

[COLOR="blue"]"Fox (quick ratio power) amd SN95 racks have the same steering ratio, 15:1. Most of the Fox racks have steering racking limiting clips installed from Ford to limit the steering lock and keep the "wide" 225 tires from rubbing. When you remove the clips, both racks require the same number of turns lock to lock. The biggest difference in the racks is that the SN95 racks have a stiffer torsion valve in them. This gives much more weight when the car is going straight and reduces the assist level when the car is turning."[/COLOR]

By using the Fox pump the only difference is in the stiffer torsion valve as Jack describes. You can also put a little more effort into the system by installing a V6 Mustang pulley on the pump which slows the pump down due to the larger diameter. This is usually only something you would do with a road race car.

Jack also has stated this over and over on several forums:

[COLOR="blue"]"The stiffness of the torsion bar in a power rack determines how much steering wheel torque it takes before you start to get power assist. Once you have started to get power assist, the output pressure/volume of the PS pump determines how much power assist there is. When you drive the car in a straight line, and give it a very small amount of steering wheel torque, there is no power assist until you apply enough torque to open the flow control valve in the rack, then you get power assist. Vehicle speed has nothing to do with power steering behavior in a Fox or SN95 Mustang."[/COLOR]

So what you get with the SN95 rack is a newer design, increased feed back, and the car just generally does not feel like an over boosted grandma car.

Darren

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #13 – January 05, 2011, 06:39:46 AM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;348340

You will have to use the Fox inner tie rods. The SN95 cars are metric threads between the tie rods but are the same thread as the Fox racks where the inner tie rods attach to the rack.

Darren, what would one use if they had or planned to use 94-95 spindles, in regards to outer tie rods? For example: '88 control arms, sn95 rack, 94-95 spindles. Could I use the sn95 inner and outer tie rods with fox ball joints? Or would the overall length be the deciding factor? (i looked around, couldn't find the pertinent info..)
Just trying to get a clear concise view on what combination would be the best for a stock to mildly lowered setup.

And this should be stickied...anyone else?

Steering Racks and Power Steering Pumps

Reply #14 – January 05, 2011, 09:17:46 AM

Funny you should ask about the SN95 spindles as both my cars are converted that way.

The T-Bird has the 96+ spindles on it but that is due to having an aftermarket K-member which leads to the question about the ball joints. The tubular control arms which came with the K-member also come with the low friction SN95 style ball joints. This car also has the SN95 rack, MM hybrid steering shaft, Fox inner and outer tie-rods, and a MM Fox bump steer kit.

The Coupe has the 96+ spindles on it also due to having an aftermarket K-member and it too has the low friction SN95 style ball joints in the tubular control arms. Again, the car has the SN95 rack, MM hybrid steering shaft, Fox inner and outer tie-rods, and a MM Fox bump steer kit.

One difference between the two cars is the Coupe was the Ginnie pig. It had a stock K-member with stock control arms, Fox ball joints, and the 94-95 SN95 spindles prior to converting over to the aftermarket K-member. The installation of the SN95 rack, MM hybrid steering shaft, Fox inner and outer tie-rods, and a MM Fox bump steer kit was done prior to the aftermarket K-member with the only exception being the bump steer kit was the tapered version versus the bolt through it has now. The tapered version is for cars that have been lowered but not been dropped into the weeds like the bolt through. I had to use the 0.330" stack of washers between the SN95 spindle and the Fox ball joint so that the correct height was achieved to get the castle nut to torque correctly without leaving the spindle loose. This has also been documented on various sites with Matt's being the most comprehensive:

http://home.comcast.net/~mjbobbitt/mustang/page1.html

Another thing a person can do is simply install the SN95 ball joints in the Fox control arms. The Moog brand works really well and if your ball joints are suspect and you are keeping the stock control arms this is a great solution. This is also mentioned in Matt's site above.

Now in the case of the 87-88 cars and the question of tie-rod lengths. My guess here would be to install the SN95 rack with the Fox inner tie-rods and use the Fox outer tie-rods. From what I have read the mounting locations of the control arms moved inward about the difference in length between the Fox and SN95 control arms.

For clarification purposes the 83-86 cars use Fox Mustang control arms and the 87-88 cars use the SN95 control arms which are about 1.25" longer than the Fox units. From what I can tell the distance from ball joint to ball joint with the control arms mounted to the K-member and the control arms held parallel to the ground is just about identical. Maybe +/- 0.25" but others can chime in on that.

In this thread that Chuck W started (http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?27386) Brent posted up the ball joint to ball joint width of an 87 car but we still do not have this data for a 83-86 car which would confirm what I am thinking above.

Anyhow, hope my rambling helped.

Darren