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Topic: Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40 (Read 4138 times) previous topic - next topic

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #30 –
Noticed this thing has two Schrader valves, one at the front like Mustangs, and one right by the regulator. Is that so you can check pressure before and after, or to add the pressurized cleaner?

Since it won't start at all now without starter fluid, im going to check pressure again. Already ordered a pump, since that would be changed at some point anyways, it wont be wasted money like the dizzy. Picked up a siphon pump and three five gallon gas cans.

THANKS FOR FILLING IT ALL THE WAY UP BUDDY!
87 Thunderbird LX
65mm tb, exploder intake, iron gt40 heads, 1.6 rr, a9l mass air swap, 9.5" Billet Dirty Dog TC, Built AOD, 4.10's, 31 spline TLoc, Superior Axles, full sn95 five lug swap.

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #31 –
Quote from: jcassity;311842
cite your proof on that one,,,,

no the tps is not self adjusting


Wanna bet?

Quote
The following is a very short explanation of the EEC-IV Idle/TPS Strategy as contained in the EEC-IV Strategy Book - GUFB. Every time the Ign Switch is turned to the ON position.....the EEC-IV will do the following for the TPS signal:

    * Minimum voltage at closed throttle over .49 vdc. , less than .49 and codes 23 and 63 will set as failures.  SOS Urgent
    * Max voltage closed throttle should not exceed 1.2 vdc, or codes 23 & 53 will set as failures.  SOS Urgent
    * TPS voltage between .5vdc and 1.19 = no codes, TPS  ...then EEC-IV system is  OK! (TPS wise)


►Closed throttle TPS value is reset by the system to the lowest value read when ignition is turned on [SIZE="6"]every time[/SIZE]. Or as explained by the EEC-IV RATCH algorithm:[/I][/B]


Quote
The variable RATCH is the output of a ratchet algorithm which continuously seeks the minimum throttle angle corresponding to a CLOSED THROTTLE position. This alleviates the necessity to set the throttle position sensor at an absolute position and compensates for system changes and differences between vehicles. The ratchet algorithm uses filtered throttle position for the determination of RATCH.

► A voltage increase of .04 vdc from the minimum registered will id part throttle status.
► Minimum WOT value of 3.21 vdc (.5 + 2.71) and not higher than actual Voltage REFerence (VREF) generated by the ECM to access WOT strategy.


My source?  Joel5.0 of sbftech.com 
The man knows his shiznit.

My bet's on the pump or the feed line connected to it as already stated.  If you pinch off the return line while the car is running in park, what happens to the fuel pressure?
-- 05 Mustang GT-Whipplecharged !!
--87 5.0 Trick Flow Heads & Intake - Custom Cam - Many other goodies...3100Lbs...Low12's!

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #32 –
Quote from: V8Demon;312391


My bet's on the pump or the feed line connected to it as already stated.  If you pinch off the return line while the car is running in park, what happens to the fuel pressure?


It won't run at all now. With a bit of starter fluid it will for a few seconds, but no dice afterwards, and immediately shuts down if you touch the throttle. Pressure at the rail is about 25 psi cranking, straight to 0 when it dies, or as soon as the key turns back. I have a filter, ordered a pump. Ill siphon the gas and see if the tank is filthy Saturday.
87 Thunderbird LX
65mm tb, exploder intake, iron gt40 heads, 1.6 rr, a9l mass air swap, 9.5" Billet Dirty Dog TC, Built AOD, 4.10's, 31 spline TLoc, Superior Axles, full sn95 five lug swap.

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #33 –
Quote from: 32VFoxBird;312226
FP should be about 39psi w/ vacuum, 41psi w/o.

and that's interesting the license plate flips down. i haven't seen that before.


NO, it should be around 30-32psi with vac & rise to 39psi without vac...

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #34 –
You'll get it. You are on the right track.

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #35 –
Quote from: V8Demon;312391
Wanna bet?



My source?  Joel5.0 of sbftech.com 
The man knows his shiznit.

My bet's on the pump or the feed line connected to it as already stated.  If you pinch off the return line while the car is running in park, what happens to the fuel pressure?


joel knows his shiznit ,true.  I did explain that the (physical) TPS voltage is not reset or manipulated by the eec.  It remains as it is while the eec may compensate.  Without the detail, thats whas i was touching on using limp mode as a ref.

The tps isnt adjusted but is looked at and compensated for but if a high reading tps is intalled, the car will have high rpm.    since the computer use to have a tps that once upon a time had a good base line voltage at idel, the tables the eec used to refer to were good refernces.

With a tps installed that has incorrect idle voltage will only result in the eec refering to the data its collecting from a tps thats giving it bad data and needs adjusted so the eec can then have a good baseline idle voltage.

If the eec never has an acceptable idle or wot or voltage to record, its only going to be refering back to irronious information its gathering which is incorrect.,, thus the high idle or constant surging or whatever we see sometimes.

my ponit is that if you have a good tps then all is well for the eec, however my further point was that if you have a bad tps, then if it were bad then how would we ever know.  We know because we start getting running problems,, surging,, ect, thus the eec cant adjust the tps,, only refer to the tps recordings and in this case, bad recordings.

If it were able to do what was said, we would never be able to tell the car was running bad because the eec would be able to cover it all up forever and tps problems would be rare.

correct?

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #36 –
Put the new fuel pump in and lay these naysayers to bed, lol

When you said it won't run without starting fluid, it's either out of gas, not getting gas, or the fuel pump relays aren't working. Since it would start and run (somewhat..)before, we can probably rule out the relays. :D

Make sure to grab a new fuel filter for it as well, and since you'll have the tank down, might as well take it completely out and clean it real good. Might as well get all the crusty muck out.
Make sure to test fuel pressure after it starts and runs, to see what the difference makes. You'll be surprised.

You mentioned a Mustang fuel pump, good thinking, if you ever plan to upgrade to an HO-spec engine later on. No sense in having to do it all twice ;)

Let us know..
'98 Explorer 5.0
'20 Malibu (I know, Chevy, but, 35MPG. Let's go brandon, eh)

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #37 –
I have a filter, but Ill wait till I do the pump. Ordered a 255lph Walbro. No reason to replace with a stocker, I'm absolutely building this car. Planning to go back to front, 8.8 then 4r70w, then 347.
87 Thunderbird LX
65mm tb, exploder intake, iron gt40 heads, 1.6 rr, a9l mass air swap, 9.5" Billet Dirty Dog TC, Built AOD, 4.10's, 31 spline TLoc, Superior Axles, full sn95 five lug swap.

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #38 –
Good call on the 255'er. Got one myself, just need a warmer day to drop my tank.

Post a lot of pics of the build :D
'98 Explorer 5.0
'20 Malibu (I know, Chevy, but, 35MPG. Let's go brandon, eh)

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #39 –
Well, dropped the tank, and i would say it might be hard to build pressure with a line like this:


I already have the Walbro, but Im questioning the tank. Its obvious the problem was the line, not necc. teh gas itself, but Im looking for opinions. The gas looks a little cloudy in the tank:






What should I rinse this out with???


Also, my pickup is rusty, pretty bad, so Im going to replace that for sure, so unfortunately this isnt getting done today.

Where can I get one? I cant find a part number on rock auto/google??
87 Thunderbird LX
65mm tb, exploder intake, iron gt40 heads, 1.6 rr, a9l mass air swap, 9.5" Billet Dirty Dog TC, Built AOD, 4.10's, 31 spline TLoc, Superior Axles, full sn95 five lug swap.

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #40 –
rinse the tank with clean gas and i seen some new pickups on ebay lastnight.

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #41 –
Took the pickup to the shop, sand blasted it. It came out nice, the rust wasnt too deep. Painted it and tossed it in with the new pump.

Car started right up. WOO HOO. Suspension doesnt feel that great. Ill get into that next weekend, but the important thing is...it lives!!!
87 Thunderbird LX
65mm tb, exploder intake, iron gt40 heads, 1.6 rr, a9l mass air swap, 9.5" Billet Dirty Dog TC, Built AOD, 4.10's, 31 spline TLoc, Superior Axles, full sn95 five lug swap.

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #42 –
Good news!

Did you use submersible fuel line? It's expensive, but worth it not to have the same issue down the road.

Sorry to offer this after the fact, I haven't checked the board in a while.

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #43 –
Quote from: flylear45;313177
Good news!

Did you use submersible fuel line? It's expensive, but worth it not to have the same issue down the road.

Sorry to offer this after the fact, I haven't checked the board in a while.


Ha!

No, didnt know the difference. Oh well. Is the standard stuff a time bomb, or just typically inferior, but should last years?
87 Thunderbird LX
65mm tb, exploder intake, iron gt40 heads, 1.6 rr, a9l mass air swap, 9.5" Billet Dirty Dog TC, Built AOD, 4.10's, 31 spline TLoc, Superior Axles, full sn95 five lug swap.

Fuel Pump/Tank: Update post 40

Reply #44 –
Used to not be an issue, but I've seen even the EFI fuel line get soft in the tank with modern fuels.

YMMV, so I hope it doesn't end up a problem. It's just something I do since tanks are a pain to drop.