Finished the 5 Lug! But.... February 17, 2010, 06:51:51 PM Problems with toe, had to remove .5-.75" from both tie rods, used new 95 Stang inner tie rods.Ok, ordered Caster Camber plates. Decided against using full SN-95 assembly.For those that are unaware what a "knee" assembly includes; Control arms, spindles, brakes, struts, and springs.SN95 brakes Require one 7/16 Male to 3/16 Female adapter(Driver's side Eaton/NAPA #641-3306) and minor filing on the brake brackets for hose to chassis mount.Note to others: Use internal spring compressor, or full "jaw" type. Buy new brake hoses to make the required bends easier.Note to self, torque down CC plates before removing car from garage :)So, I did manage to get a shot of the SN-95 control arm angle on the car before I removed it. I only had about 1-1/4" engagement with the tie rods using those arms.Ceramic coated the Fox control arms for grins, more like a major headache due to the fact that impure bushings don't like 300 Degree heat for 45 Minutes. So, ended up with almost $200 in new bushings and ball joints for the fox arms, because one of the boots was torn anyway. THEN, I went to install them, and nothing I had would work for the bushings so I ended up spending $160 to have everything installed in the arms, which they told me was a smoking deal, because they had one guy on each arm for the hour I gave them to have it completed. I am SO tired of working on that car. Installing the front suspension once was enough, but two/three times!Still needs to be aligned and the brakes bled, seems that no matter what I do, I cannot successfully rid the lines of air without a pressure bleeder. I have a toe out state right now, might have to shorten the tie rods? They seemed to be getting kind of tight when I was bringing the toe in, so I'm not sure what's up with that exactly. Hopefully Les Schwab can sort it out.:D - Schwab came through and chopped off the ends on the tie rods for minimal extra expense since I was out of time to have this completed. Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #1 – February 18, 2010, 06:45:55 AM Take pics,and I look forward to hearing and seeing the results.Good luck.Also,make a list of all the bits and pieces. Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #2 – March 01, 2010, 01:02:04 AM Man, modifications are expensive! I have way too much in the front suspension swap on this car. The ride height is sitting at about 28.5" from the ground to the top of the wheel well in back, and 27.25" up front. SN-95 V8 suspension up front, Fox bird Monroe struts and ford blue springs in the back.Yes I know, the car isn't in the greatest shape, and it's filthy, but I'm exhausted, and I know how you all are a bunch of picture mongers! I also realize that a bit taller sidewall on the tires would have been nice, but two of them were free, so there.Romeo2K, the one picture kind of shows you how far out the tire sticks with the SN-95 arms, the rim is a 18x7.5" with 6 inches of backspacing. I have a feeling it would have rubbed in a hard corner, maybe not though. Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #3 – March 01, 2010, 08:51:42 PM What exactly is the "knee" assembly? When I converted my 83 it was really straight forward with the SN95 parts.Darren Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #4 – March 01, 2010, 08:57:53 PM It is everything from the top of the strut to the bolts for the A-Arm. Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #5 – March 01, 2010, 09:25:34 PM So this would be the strut, Spindle, hub, and LCA?Darren Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #6 – March 02, 2010, 09:44:45 AM + spring and complete brake assembly of course, yes. Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #7 – March 02, 2010, 12:34:01 PM Thanks for the info! I had never heard that term before and wanted to keep up. Good luck with the swap! Darren Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #8 – March 02, 2010, 10:04:11 PM Just as an FYI, I installed the SN95 spindles on my 84 Turbo Coupe a few years back and didn't install caster-camber plates. I simply used 83-86 T-Bird struts and spaced them with some large diameter washers to fill the gap between the spindle and strut. Believe they may be in the 1" size...? Anyway, it was a basic straight-forward swap and I had it aligned the next day with no issues. Keep us posted on your upgrade and let me know if theres anything I can answer for you. Later, RAY Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #9 – March 02, 2010, 10:17:10 PM No Problem Aero.Silver, the "Knee" assembly I will be installing uses everything from an SN95, to include the control arms and struts. The control arms are going to kick out the spindles an extra 3/4" per side, requiring the use of the plates to correct the alignment. I appreciate the heads up on the washers though, it just doesn't apply. Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #10 – March 03, 2010, 12:55:16 AM Are you sure they will only increase the track width by 0.75" per side? You have a stock K-member correct? If so see if I make sense here.The 83-86 T-Birds all have the same K-Member and same LCA's. The 87-88 cars all have the same K-Member and same LCA's as well. The K-member on the 87-88 cars had the LCA mounting points moved inward to adjust for the longer LCA's. The front track width on 83-88 T-Birds is the same. From all of this a person could say that that the LCA mounting points on the 87-88 T-Bird K-Members were moved inward the difference in length between the 83-86 and 87-88 LCA's.I found that the 87-88 T-Bird LCA's are the same length as the SN95 Mustangs (94-98). I also found that the Fox Mustang LCA's are the same length as the 83-86 T-Bird LCA's. It has been measured a couple of times and SN95 Mustang LCA's are 1.33" longer than the Fox Mustang LCA's.So what I get from all of that is if you install SN95 or 87-88 LCA's on your 83-86 T-Bird (with a stock K-Member) you will end up with an increase in track width of 1.33" per side if you use the 94-95 Mustang spindles. If you use the 96+ spindles you can add an additional 0.315" of an inch to make it 1.645" of total track width increase per side.If you have a 83-86 T-Bird with a stock K-member you need to run the Fox length LCA's to maintain the stock track. You may also need to install bumpsteer kits on each side (take the place of the outer tie-rod ends) as the SN95 spindles change the geometry on the cars especially the lowered ones. For the Fox Mustangs with the stock K-Member it is preferred to run the 94-95 spindles due to the geometry of the stock K-Member. If you run an aftermarket K-Member in a Mustang such as a Maximum Motorsports or Griggs they are designed around the 96+ spindles so that is the preferred spindle to run with them. I believe that MM and Griggs also design their T-Bird K-Members around the 96+ spindles as that is what Griggs told me to use on mine. I would also assume that you would want to use the 94-95 spindles on a stock K-Member T-Bird for the same geomerty reasons as the Mustang.Sorry I reference the Mustangs so much but I started learning as much as I could about the Mustangs as there was very little info outside of the Blue Oval on the T-Birds. My understanding of alot of this got better when I built my '93 Coupe which I am using the second time around on the '83 T-Bird (going from a street/strip setup to a street/road course setup). This site is one of the few with really good info so I hope I am adding to it. If anyone sees any errors in my information please post up with the correct information.Referenced threads:http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=781854&highlight=front+control+%2Aarm+length+thunderbirdhttp://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=18783&highlight=front+control+%2Aarm+lengthI have a Griggs K-Member in my '83 with Fox length LCA's. I had the SN95 LCA's and the front tires stuck out way too far. I called the Griggs dealer and he instantly knew I had the SN95 LCA's which is not what he ordered me. He had a brand new set of Fox LCA's at his shop and traded me straight up. Installed them and problem solved.Darren Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #11 – March 03, 2010, 09:52:08 AM As per ChuckW, resident expert; QuoteSN-95 and 87-88 Tbird arms are the same length and 3/4" longer than the 83-86 Tbird (and Fox Mustang) front control arms. They will obviously push the wheels out. Due to the angle that they mount on the K-member, it's not quite 3/4". On the 87-88 cars, the inner points are moved inboard about 1/2".-Deleted for misunderstanding- Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #12 – March 03, 2010, 11:07:25 AM I don't think you see what I am saying. Regardless of the mounting locations on the K-Members the length difference between the Fox LCA's and the SN95 LCA's is 1.33" per side. If you are not changing K-Members the SN95's will push the track width out 1.33" per side. The 87-88 cars have the narrower K-Member not the other way around. Read Chuck's post on the thread I linked, its post #3.Darren Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #13 – March 03, 2010, 12:21:59 PM jrad235-Stay with your Fox control arms. If you want to swap in the SN-95 ball joints, do so. Unless you have an 87-88 car, or are modding your K-member, the SN-95 arms are going to push the wheels out too far to be useable w/o perhaps using 05+ Mustang wheels in the front. Aero- The 87-88/SN-95 arms arm longer, but since they're mounted in the car at an angle, the overall width increase is not going to be 1.33", it wil be less. Quote Selected
Finished the 5 Lug! But.... Reply #14 – March 03, 2010, 12:37:07 PM Gotcha. Mine are basically parallel to the ground with the Griggs suspension so there was a huge difference between the two.Darren Quote Selected
Topic: Finished the 5 Lug! But.... (Read 8401 times)
previous topic - next topic
