Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1

Topic: Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1 (Read 3018 times) previous topic - next topic

Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1

July 15, 2009, 03:36:58 AM

Well....I'm finally back from my month long vacation in the good ol' USA. Had to do the family stuff for a couple of weekends, a high school reunion and some Father's Day Hot Rod reunion in Bowling Green, KY (My favorite Drag Strip by far). I thrashed for virtually a month to get the Thunderbird back at the track for a 5 year hiatus welcome back weekend of drag racing. So to not keep anyone reading this thread at bay, Here is my findings.

My overall goal of running 10's in a Fox Cat/Bird and a 5.0 motor with no power adder was well underway. In May, I ordered my 4300 RPM stall Torque Converter from Precision Industries, A new Professional Products single plane SBF injected intake and an Edelbrock elbow and Fuel Cell to replace my sumped gas tank that leaks like a civ. I had every intention to wring as much HP as I could outta the combination that I had and just see how fast I could get it to go. With a combination that would squish some asphalt in the neighborhood of 3300 lbs and pretty much a stock 93 Cobra motor with an "E" cam.

I got home on the 13th of June expecting to see parts galore but, alas....Summit had my intake manifold on backorder and my torque converter was no where to be seen. I contacted Summit......July 20th....well that sucks cause I would already be gone. Cancel it....... Hello Precision, oh, there is a problem....
They thought I had made a mistake in saying that I needed a torque converter to fit a 164 tooth flex plate with a 11.5" bolt pattern, and 5.0 anythings have a 157 tooth flex plate and 10.5" bolt pattern. Well for some reason when dealing with C-4's and AOD's and whatever tranny the 157 and 10.5 pattern seems to be the common but, the factory AOD flexplate is a 164 tooth 11.5" flexplate. Do not let anyone tell you anything different. So of course...I got the wrong converter and you really don't figure it out until laying on your back looking through the starter hole....AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!
To not get upset, I put it all back together, loaded it on the trailer to hit my appointment at Anderson Ford Motorsport the following morning.

Ahhhh, the smell of a completely untuned and rich running 5.0 in the morning. My cousin and I make the journey all the way to Clinton, IL (about 30 miles) and unload. We meet Danny Biggs at Anderson, unload the car, the check it out and find the computer is not all the way seated in the harness. The painless harness I used was keeping the computer from seating...little knock here and there, VIOLA!!! Computer seated and was running much better. WOW, sounded good. Lets melt the dyno down.
The 5 year old motor with a bizillion nitrous passes made 18 back to back dyno pulls. Each one exceeding my expectations.
First, the car starts missing...plug change, nothing......Ah, the rev limiter on the ignition box. It was set at 6300 but they are not all accurate 100%. Reset to 10000 RPM. Good, no more miss at 5800.
Next, a complete dyno pull all the way to 6200. OK...it's lean...more fuel pressure. We maxed the FP at 60 psi. Still lean. Time for bigger injectors. I had a set of 30's I pulled from some early Super Coupes in Hawaii. Stuck them in and added a DBX programmable MAF and Anderson Power Pipe. The fuel curve changed drastically and got fatter, but not enough. We added fuel pressure, all the way to 55 psi. Couldn't believe how much fuel it needed but hell if it's lean ya gotta do it.
Last, we made a pull all the way to 6200, the car ran stoich almost across the board. We finally coaxed 255 RWHP and 283 FT/LBS of torque outta the Ford part numbered motor before a rocker arm backed off and started ticking. All in all a good day.

Look out tomorrow cause we are headed to the track!!! Alas my racing days were dashed by a storm on the 4th of July. The 4th!!!! I could not remember a time that the 4th was ever rained out. But hell it was all for not. I took some cool pics of the car loaded up, at the dyno and a few videos of it making some pulls. I guess I will have to wait until the next vacation to get the converter in there and intake changed to see what it will really run as is.

Check out the pics. Oh and I will need to set up a tent at the next CJ just to sell all my 5.0 stuff. I finally realized I have a few things that need to go, like a truck load of parts.

Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1

Reply #1 – July 15, 2009, 10:01:46 AM

Sounds like you had some fun. Too bad the parts didn't come in though. The car looks good :D

The 4th got rained out in Chicago as well. It rained all day. Plus it was about 68*. Yeah we've had shiznitty weather all summer in Illinois...

Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1

Reply #2 – July 15, 2009, 05:20:42 PM

Drooool>.........

Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1

Reply #3 – July 20, 2009, 04:54:03 PM

Sounds like a good start...I highly doubt it'll run in the 10's as is...You definitely do need more intake and MUCH more than an E-cam...are your heads stock or ported? With the right work, that thing could be in the 10's for sure, but it's gonna have to turn about 7200rpm to get there...maybe a little more.

Good luck!
-Don

Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1

Reply #4 – July 20, 2009, 05:43:44 PM

Quote

We maxed the FP at 60 psi. Still lean. Time for bigger injectors. I had a set of 30's I pulled from some early Super Coupes in Hawaii. Stuck them in and added a DBX programmable MAF and Anderson Power Pipe. The fuel curve changed drastically and got fatter, but not enough. We added fuel pressure, all the way to 55 psi. Couldn't believe how much fuel it needed but hell if it's lean ya gotta do it.

What size pump are you running? 30 pound injectors @55PSI would flow close to 35 pounds/hour. With enough pump and no restrictions in the fuel system, 19's should cover your power level (provided they're in good working order and not clogged).

Remember increasing fuel pressure on an injector will increase it's flow, but will cause greater strain on the fuel pump as it has to work harder to get it up the line(s) therefore making pump flow LESS.

Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1

Reply #5 – July 21, 2009, 05:09:25 AM

It has two pumps. They are an aftermarket Bosch pump used by Accel for their first gen sequential fuel injection system for the SBC. I built the system before the Aeromotive A1000 was available, right after the fuel railshiznit the market.

I realize exactly what you are saying since pressure is directly related to volume. Danny could not quite figure that out as well. See I have had a problem with the FI system since 2002 where it swings violently rich and lean causing it to miss intermittently when under normal driving conditions and it loads the engine up with fuel. At WOT the engine runs fine with the exception that it is so rich the second you floor it that it will take a few seconds to clean it out. I believe that it is a vacuum leak somewhere in the intake manifold or the brake booster causing the problem. I have not been able to find the problem in 8 years cause I am always F'ing deployed or the parts do not arrive. It's just the nature of the beast. Once I do find the problem things will be completely different as the car will gain quite a bit of the power band back. That's just something I am dealing with now....if you have any insight, it would be greatly appreciated. I would love to discuss it cause I am completely wiped out on the FI problem......I almost installed a carb and forgot I even had a FI system. But, that is like giving up....and I'm no quitter.

As for Don.....I will get it in the 10's...that's what this is all about. The intake was supposed to be gone 2 months ago but for some reason Summit seems to no longer stock anything and has to drop ship everything I order. I think it's a character builder as I am always fighting up hill and naysayers. In 1 year I should be home in the USA and I will have some time to show you how. I have a desktop dragstrip type of program that I am working with and it is kind of building a roadmap of how to get to where I want to be. The combination is changing as we have this conversation. There is tons of weight that can be lost on these cars and I am about to redefine base model. I'm looking for a 2600 lb curb weight or 2750 w/ me in it. That makes 10's much more attainable for the average Joe. It's all about combination!!!!!

Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1

Reply #6 – July 21, 2009, 10:27:28 AM

Quote

See I have had a problem with the FI system since 2002 where it swings violently rich and lean causing it to miss intermittently when under normal driving conditions and it loads the engine up with fuel. At WOT the engine runs fine with the exception that it is so rich the second you floor it that it will take a few seconds to clean it out.

Your O2 sensors are reading the wrong banks. I'd bet money on it.

Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1

Reply #7 – July 21, 2009, 05:02:19 PM

I don't doubt that it'll run 10's...you just have a little more work ahead of you...taking that weight out will help immensely. Sucks about your intake because that probably would have woke that thing up a bit.

Good luck!
-Don

Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1

Reply #8 – July 22, 2009, 04:53:29 AM

Quote from: V8Demon;283053

Your O2 sensors are reading the wrong banks. I'd bet money on it.

Yeah...that's not the problem. Checked it a bizillion times. I thought the same thing. I have it narrowed down to the 2 things...intake manifold....everything on it, and brake booster. The FI system does not throw any codes, works fine at WOT and it happened after I got it really hot (hot lapping at the track) while not watching the temp gauge and then I sprayed it. Something "popped" and I have not been able to find it. I was thinking NO2 backfire and that could have screwed the brake booster. I'm at wits end with it. Here is the list of things tried. The car only has 2 vacuum lines, FPR and Booster. I pulled the booster check valve when at home and no vacuum came out. That is why I am thinking that's the issue. I then plugged the port and the car ran completely different. I didn't dare drive it cause with 105 mph trap speeds.....the brakes are a must.

Changed or replaced over the course of 8 years:

Injectors
Complete ignition
All FI sensors, computer, wiring harness
motor
tranny
Fuel system including tank
All intake ducting

The only things remaining are:

Brake Booster
Intake Manifold
Throttle body, TPS and IAC
88 T-Bird Sport Body

Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1

Reply #9 – July 22, 2009, 09:46:37 AM

Change the 88 T-Bird Sport Body

The intake might be holding you back from making some power, but that's not gonna be the cause of the issue or the reason the car eats so much gas.

How's the brakes after the "popping" incident?

Project ThunderPhenoix Part:1

Reply #10 – July 23, 2009, 02:30:52 AM

The brakes have always felt weak...I really cannot tell any difference before and after the incident.

I think that the car must be sucking air somewhere as it acts like a vacuum leak. I hope that I can resolve the problem before I say screw it and go with a carb. I would really like to iron the rich at idle issue out first. I was just hoping to find the problem using logical problem solving...but so far it has baffled me and the bubbas at Anderson Ford. With their experience, It must be a M/F'er of a problem....so I'm not the only guy beating my head with this problem.