Timing is all retarded December 01, 2008, 12:12:03 AM Literally. While driving the car today, I had to pull off the interstate twice to make some small modifications to the transmission's computer. Both times, the car was only turned off for a second, then restarted to let the tcs reboot to use the new settings. Immediately afterward, the car would idle like but rev up with no issue. Putting it on the road, with much of a load on the car, the spark would ignite through the exhaust. It would run like and barely accelerate. The tripminder would read 16mpg at the same load it normally reads 27-28. After a certain point, it would seem like the EEC would switch into closed loop and the timing would then run correctly, the engine would be tons smoother and gain power instantly. MPG returned to the normal range.Besides this little issue and weird transmission settings, the car drives great. Only getting 29.5mpg compared to the gt40's I had that got me 30.5-31 on the highway but I blame that on the new exhaust. Rockers are still noisy but they do have a double verified .035-.045 preload (depending on which bank).The timing is at 10 degrees. The distributor is in correctly. Why is the car doing this and for ~5 minutes before it magically goes away? Is the balancer marked incorrectly and I'm already running too retarded? The engine's got 215 miles now.Edit:No codes other than EGR (this will never go away apparently - it works but has thrown a code for years) and Thermactor. Also there are no sounds of vacuum leaks anywhere. My first assumption is something bad throwing off open loop. Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #1 – December 01, 2008, 11:16:45 PM I'm thinking this and my transmission clutch issue may be related. I'm going to find a replacement TPS sensor. It seems to test fine but a bad TPS seems a shared problem-source for both these types of problems. The throttlebody isn't sticking, yet sometimes I'm getting .76v on the tps at the transmission computer, while others when the transmission is working properly, the lowest is always .82v. I get .98 at the tps itself. No idea what I get when driving and get the off .76v but it goes off the chart on the TCS and the clutch unlocks. Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #2 – December 02, 2008, 09:16:09 PM TPS fixed it. After another drive, the tps was no longer registering properly. I was getting .90 volts almost all the time. $84 later for a Motorcraft piece, it revs quicker and the transmission computer reports 1.08v at idle, 4.51v at WOT. Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #3 – December 04, 2008, 05:41:58 PM I was wrong - I just needed more time with the car. The problem still exists when the car's warm and the engine is in open loop for the first 2 minutes after re-startup. After it switches to closed, it smooths out greatly. Codes are no different than before - 94, 44, and 33. Timing is directly at 10 degrees on the Pioneer balancer. The distributor is in the correct place - no teeth off.This time the popping was for sure coming from the engine bay - so through the intake. My TPS is now reading .98v at the computer at idle and 4.63v at the computer at WOT. What's left of the vacuum lines after removing the smog are all connected properly and not leaking - they're new silicone hoses. Last I checked, I had 38psi of fuel pressure with the hose disconnected from the regulator.Where should I look next? I could only think that the egr code is related but I've checked that thing - it works fine and pulling the vacuum line doesn't help. The valve has like 5,000 miles on it. Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #4 – December 04, 2008, 08:38:44 PM I'm dealing with the same issue. However a completely different setup. (see sig) I've done a complete tune up, checked for vaccum leaks, verified timing, and adjusted air fuel ratio. My next guess is to rebuild the carb and do a compression check. If that doesn't work then I'm pulling the motor. Checked fuel pressure to, and changed the filter. Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #5 – December 04, 2008, 10:09:02 PM It works fine closed loop and at higher rpm's so I know it isn't fuel related. Somehow I'm getting too much air but it doesn't make sense. Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #6 – December 05, 2008, 11:33:08 AM The ECT sensor is discontinued from Ford? It's not sounding good for the ACT sensor either...The ECT sounds fine since it does go into closed loop properly but who knows. I cleaned the ACT sensor up to get rid of oil buildup before putting it in the new motor but I've no idea if it's working properly anymore. No useful trouble codes makes none of this make sense. Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #7 – December 05, 2008, 02:43:04 PM The ECT and ACT are discontinued from Ford? I just bought new Motorcraft ones last year. I bought it from the local Motorcraft guy so I really can't say how old they were...they might have been NOS parts. Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #8 – December 06, 2008, 04:39:12 AM Quote from: thunderjet302;246295The ECT and ACT are discontinued from Ford? I just bought new Motorcraft ones last year. I bought it from the local Motorcraft guy so I really can't say how old they were...they might have been NOS parts.That's what they say...I've called twice over the last week and two different guys told me that after looking it up. I still find that hard to believe due to the number of Mustangs, and EFI 302's in general, still on the road. I double check everything on my problem this weekend but now apparently my speedometer sensor on the extension housing decided it wanted to start being a bleed hole - it's leaking out at a very nasty pace all of a sudden. I need to replace the oring and maybe the sensor itself before I can worry about finding a vacuum leak. I can never seem to get all these things ironed out. Baumann Controls has no clue as to why the clutch keeps locking and unlocking at closed throttle so that's another annoying problem to solve. Then there's the fact that the drivers seat won't bolt down permanently in the front - I need to pull it and see why it isn't grabbing. The list goes on and on... Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #9 – December 07, 2008, 12:40:08 AM So the speed sensor was semi-busted - it wasn't completely straight. I have another issue with the extension housing's gasket itself - I'm pulling it tomorrow to replace the gasket. Anything that could possible break has been.At least the gasket's only $4 and this gives me a chance to put a new transmission mount in. Hopefully I can get the extension housing off without too much trouble - can't drop the transmission too far before it'll be resting on the exhaust. I don't understand why this leaking would have started out of nowhere though, and at the extension housing area at that. Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #10 – December 15, 2008, 11:30:24 PM Transmission extension housing gasket, bushing, seal, and oil pan all replaced...Bought new sensors all around since I'm still using 20 year old pieces - even if none of them fix my issue, it's good to have new Motorcraft pieces. RockAuto and eBay to the rescue. Still have the lean open loop problem so far though. Parts arrive next week, right before Christmas. Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #11 – December 16, 2008, 12:13:45 AM I'm having the same issue with my bird. It will POP and then everything is fine. I think my computer hates my cam. One of these days I'll get it dyno tuned. Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #12 – December 16, 2008, 02:24:09 PM Quote from: SR71TC;247728I'm having the same issue with my bird. It will POP and then everything is fine. I think my computer hates my cam. One of these days I'll get it dyno tuned.I've got a stock HO '89 grind though...? I had similar delayed power on the old engine (gutless until a certain point where it would just take off) back in the day though so I'm leaning towards them being related - hopefully new sensors take care of it. I can only assume the new exhaust would have made such problems more obvious. The other possibility is always those black and white harness connectors but I've checked those many times in the past. I hope to fix this, then I will throw the A9P computer in the car. Quote Selected
Timing is all retarded Reply #13 – January 01, 2009, 01:36:29 PM So I had a Ford-specific performance shop check the car over and they're under the assumption that my open loop is at the limits of speed density - that with the new exhaust and heads I have too much airflow that can't be metered properly until closed loop. Does this sound right at all? I have the mass air parts so I figure I'll just throw them in. All important sensors are now new Motorcraft pieces, including TCS, ECT, ACT, and MAP. The shop couldn't find any vacuum leaks and the cylinders are all performing equally (no compression test done yet as it's a huge pain with the gt40p's). They hooked up wideband O2's to the car and found it leaning out horribly when in open loop and the popping/horrible hesitation occurs. Does this sound right to anyone else? The car is fine for about a minute into driving and at that time I'm assuming the ecu runs really rich, then leans out a little before going into closed loop. This would match up with the engine running worse and worse until it goes closed.Problem continued here: http://foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?p=250115#post250115 Quote Selected
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