Converter dilema September 04, 2008, 05:29:21 PM I've been in touch with a converter guy who comes highly recommended by the "Click Click Racing" forum guys. I told him about the set-up I plan to run in my T-Bird (basically a GT-40 engine with a TFS "stage 1" cam, AOD & 3.73's out back) and he's recommending I don't have him build a ($525) 9.5", 3000 stall, lock-up converter for me. He's recommending I have him build an ($175) 11", 2400 stall, non-lock-up converter instead. The purpose of the conservative stall is obviously to help minimize slippage at cruise speeds. I know that when it comes to a street car, "less is more" is generally a good rule to live by, but I've got doubts about how happy I'd be with that converter.I've been spending a lot of time over on "Click Click Racing's" AOD forum and the overwhelming consensus in that forum, is that non lock-up converters are the way to go with performance street cars like mine. Every time you turn around, one of those guys is talking about how they switched from using a lock-up TC, to using a non locker and how they'd never go back to a locker.One can't argue the loss of gas mileage you experience if you use a non-locker, but since this car isn't a daily driver, I have to admit, I'm seriously considering going with a non-locker.The two main reasons given over there for why they are so much happier after making the switch, are they hated the feeling of the 2-3 shift (and the accompanying RPM drop) and how much stronger their trannies are now that the TC doesn't lock up. Almost all of them say they absolutely LOVE the way the non-lockers feel.If I do go with a non locker, I'm pretty sure I'll go with more than 2400 stall. That's not much higher than stock. I'd probably go with a 2800 stall instead. That's a little conservative considering my combo compared to the kind of stall I'd run with a lock-up TC, but to paraphrase Tom, I'm sure it would still put a big smile on my face! Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #1 – September 04, 2008, 05:51:13 PM There is a guy by me who builds AODs (and will more than likely build mine) for strip and street strip performance. His stuff is better than Lentechs and he will not use lock-ups on any AOD he sells. He says that he just can't make a lock up strong enough to be as reliable (ie no warranty work) as he can a non lock up. When my AOD is rebuilt it will probably have a 2600 rpm non lock up in it. Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #2 – September 04, 2008, 06:58:01 PM Get a 4r70w and have the best of both worlds high stall and lockup on demand. I wish I would have gone that way because by the time you buy a real decent valve body, a converter, and a one piece input shaft you could put a 4r70w in with a baumann electronic controller. Oh and the 4r70w has a much better 1st and 2nd gear 2.84 vs 2.40 and 1.55 vs 1.47. Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #3 – September 04, 2008, 07:08:20 PM id go with a 2800 rpm flash, non lock up well, actually id go with a stick....just sayin' Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #4 – September 04, 2008, 07:12:36 PM Quote from: GrannysBird;234979Get a 4r70w and have the best of both worlds high stall and lockup on demand. I wish I would have gone that way because by the time you buy a real decent valve body, a converter, and a one piece input shaft you could put a 4r70w in with a baumann electronic controller. Oh and the 4r70w has a much better 1st and 2nd gear 2.84 vs 2.40 and 1.55 vs 1.47.I already have an AOD. I'm gonna stay with it. Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #5 – September 04, 2008, 07:34:49 PM Wouldn't a TC that flashes at 2800 stall around 3200? Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #6 – September 04, 2008, 08:23:22 PM Well if you're not worried about economy and you want to keep your aod just throw a non lockup converter in somewhere around 2800-3000 , you might just want to go 3000 in case you ever upgrade your setup later. You've got the right idea going non-lockup the only other thing you may want to consider is a 1 piece input shaft, but you may be able to get away without one. Just make sure to spend the money on a good torque converter from a reputable brand. (IE not B&M) Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #7 – September 04, 2008, 10:52:12 PM Quote from: thunderjet302;234970There is a guy by me who builds AODs (and will more than likely build mine) for strip and street strip performance. His stuff is better than Lentechs and he will not use lock-ups on any AOD he sells. He says that he just can't make a lock up strong enough to be as reliable (ie no warranty work) as he can a non lock up. When my AOD is rebuilt it will probably have a 2600 rpm non lock up in it.It sounds like he's the real deal. I pretty sure we'll be in the same neighborhood stall wise when all is said and done. Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #8 – September 04, 2008, 10:53:27 PM Quote from: GrannysBird;234986Well if you're not worried about economy and you want to keep your aod just throw a non lockup converter in somewhere around 2800-3000 , you might just want to go 3000 in case you ever upgrade your setup later. You've got the right idea going non-lockup the only other thing you may want to consider is a 1 piece input shaft, but you may be able to get away without one. Just make sure to spend the money on a good torque converter from a reputable brand. (IE not B&M)Good advice there. I'm going with a Dirty Dog converter. Alan's seems to be a great guy to deal with. Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #9 – September 05, 2008, 12:38:17 PM Yeah I was going to get the 2400 non-lockup stall from DD performance as well.....until I got enough money to go to a T5 :D . If you're going to spend $400 or so just on a TC (not counting the numerous other things you should get along with it), have you considered just swapping to a T5? Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #10 – September 05, 2008, 12:44:52 PM Quote from: kingcars;235056Yeah I was going to get the 2400 non-lockup stall from DD performance as well.....until I got enough money to go to a T5 :D . If you're going to spend $400 or so just on a TC (not counting the numerous other things you should get along with it), have you considered just swapping to a T5?I never even considered going to a T5. I'm an automatic fanatic. When I was younger I liked sticks, but now it's automatics all the way for me. Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #11 – September 05, 2008, 01:59:01 PM Quote from: Blue Thunder;235057I never even considered going to a T5. I'm an automatic fanatic. When I was younger I liked sticks, but now it's automatics all the way for me.X2BTW... Vic you'll probably have a 200-300 rpm increase at highway speeds with the non lockup... Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #12 – September 05, 2008, 02:12:08 PM Since I'd be running below stall RPM's I knew I'd be slipping with a non direct-drive converter. I'm OK with the drop in mileage. I'd be happy with the trade-off. Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #13 – September 05, 2008, 04:29:45 PM I think your right about the increase in rpm,I was higher than anyone else in the other post at 70.also the non lockup will be a 1 piece input shaft. Quote Selected
Converter dilema Reply #14 – September 05, 2008, 04:35:22 PM Actually, you don't have to convert to a 1-piece shaft to get rid of direct-drive. If you have a converter made up, like I'm going to do, your builder can remove the direct-drive assembly from the converter. That way the converter will still work with your split input shaft. You remove a lot of weight from the converter by sping the direct-drive assembly like that. Quote Selected
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