No start (SOLVED) February 16, 2008, 12:47:48 PM Yesterday i load up the famn damliy in the 20th. I crank but no start. All seems ok with cranking and such. I pop the hood and yank off the spark plug boot from the coil.I know that this prob isnt a good idea but i took a risk. I know that if the coil wire is off, it will jump arch to the frame when cranking. I really had no time to make a big deal out of this and cost us time as we were right on schedule as it was.I crank and no spark,,,,,,time to get busy. If it isnt the TFI or the Stator, then Ill probably learn something new. Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #1 – February 16, 2008, 05:47:54 PM Replace TFI. If still no worky replace stator. That's what I had to do with my 95 :hick: Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #2 – February 16, 2008, 11:51:47 PM I didnt have time to get this done today but tomorrow is another day. I have to get it done though nonetheless. I hate dealing with the dizzy gear, thats all. I would have bought the tool napa has for this part if they had one but they didnt.this slight bucking at various speeds gave me plenty of warning something was wrong. Before replace anything, im gonna pull the codes and see what the eec says just for snits n grins Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #3 – February 17, 2008, 01:42:44 AM Scott, this should help! EFI No Start Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #4 – February 17, 2008, 03:16:11 AM yeah, he's got it down to pin three of the TFI but no mention of pin four or how to isolate if its the stator or the TFI by probing the TFI side of the sprout.In other words, he's not able to tell which part is bad but replace both for the heck of it. My diy link does,,,,grin:D To add to this, I knew i would learn something new. Never thought of just rotating the dizzy to make spark happen. Thats awsome cause it rules out my having to keep the remote starter on call. Thats pretty simple what he's doing, just rotate the dizzy and simulate starting.purdy neat!!As for my dizzy gear, ive been thinking a lot about how im gonna get it off. I fugged up the last one i did but the two previous went fine. I actually wanna figure out a way to modify the dizy upper flat area and the stator so it can be removed from the top. Ill do some looking into this but i know it will call for:Splitting the stator ring / trim it remove some of the flat area on the dizzy where that 8 finned thingy bolts todoing the above will force the octane rod to play a role as a secondary support more than ever. If this works, I will be able to install a stator from the top from now on as long as it will fit / clear that flat area metal surface and the side of the dizzy.Im just thinking that since im keeping my coug's for a long period of time, i dont wanna have to ever do a dizzy gear removal ever again after the last one. Even with a bunch of heat the last one ended up forcing me to buy a dizzy.Way back when, i had a stator that failed so i decided to figure out why its bad. What i discovered was the black wire for the stator (which involves the TFI) was open due to a bad solder connection and heat.In theory, if i have the same problem here, I should be able to get down deep in the dizzy to find the stator black wire and jumper it to ground on the inside of the dizzy somehow.I dont know about you but this sounds like a lot of piddling for someone who has to have this car ready for a road trip monday. Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #5 – February 17, 2008, 03:34:21 PM well isnt this just freaking niftyall sensors that point to the map are showing up in my KOEO codes21 ECT23 TPS24 ACT34 EVPcontinuous memory34any takers304 772 4082 Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #6 – February 17, 2008, 03:54:10 PM Try this:QuoteNO Start - ECM NOT Turning On Condition Another reason for an EFI No Start, is that the ECM is not turning on when the key is cycled to the IGN ON position. First you have to ID this is the case. In order to confirm if the ECM is not activating, notice if the fuel pump primes when the key is rotated to IGN ON, if it does prime.....the ECM is turning on.....if it doesn't.....measure for 5 vdc VREF voltage at any of the 3-wire sensors (EVP, TPS or MAP/BP), we will use the TPS for this explanation.Notice the color of the TPS sensor wires to the sensor side.....GREEN = TPS output signal, BLACK = SIGRTN ground reference and RED or ORANGE = 5 vdc VREF.....let's start with the procedure.- Check for 5 vdc, IGN ON between the RED/ORANGE wire and a good ground like battery (-)......if 5 vdc is present, THE ECM is turning on.....not present.....next!- Check the EEC ground near the battery, it should be attached to the battery (-) or the frame.- Check the EEC relay located on top of the ECM in the passenger kickpanel, make sure it has 12-vdc "always hot" at one of the relay terminals....if not, you need to trace the "always-hot" wire to the correspondent fuselink located in the starter solenoid.- Make sure the IGN ON relay terminal switches to 12-vdc when you turn the ignition key....if not, you either have a wiring open, a bad ignition switch assy., or an open fuselink.- Make sure pin #1 at the ECM connector has 12-vdc "always hot", and that pins 47 and 57 have 12-vdc when the key is switched to IGN ON otherwise, you have an open fuselink, or an open wire between the EEC relay and the ECM connector.- Also check pins 20, 40 and 60 at the ECM connector to ground (resistance check).....if you have >5Ω resistance to a good ground reference point, the ground wires have an open somewhere.- If all the above checks OK.....the ECM is fubar..... Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #7 – February 17, 2008, 04:39:39 PM Yeah, i have 5vref everywhere.Im just curious about this cause i feel like im about to shot gun the problem. Besides, if the eec were not turning on, id bet i wouldnt get codes.I did notice something interesting on the Stator. the plastic part that sticks up opposite of the magnet,,,,,,,well, I noticed some damage there. Im curious if that piece gets warm and cools then eventually will warp and get in the way of the 8 fin thing a ma jig. I noticed some ss on two of my 8 fns, one fin with ss was my number one cyl reference blade.I dono, im gonna swap the map cause its there and easy but likley im pulling the dizzy.anyone got any ideas, im in the garage so call if you wanna but im pluggin away. Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #8 – February 17, 2008, 08:14:00 PM I swapped out the map just for the heck of it and wasnt happy with the condition of the map vac line. Man these upper intakes suck assberries!!!!. The intake end of the MAP sensor vac line cant be gotten to with the uppper installed.Anyway, installed the TFI and problem solved. EEC never once indicated the correct fault. Now i wanna know why.I solved my EVP code because apparently I neglected to reconnect the EGR in the recent past. In addition, evertime i turn around i find something has been tinkered with on this car. I found an Orange ground wire with a large lug that was not hooked up. Ill assume this would have been tied to my o'2 sensors somehow but ill look that up later unless someone knows. Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #9 – February 17, 2008, 09:10:36 PM Quote from: jcassity;204743well isnt this just freaking niftyall sensors that point to the map are showing up in my KOEO codesI don't understand this statement. The only input to the MAP is vacuum. They all share the same "reference voltage" 5v from EEC pin26. They also share the same "signal return" (logic ground) to EEC pin 46.Quote21 ECT23 TPS24 ACT34 EVPcontinuous memory34I don't understand why you are getting code 34's. According to the documentation I have it should only apply to PFE (pressure feedback type EGR sensors). You should have EVPThere are no KOEO codes for TFI. There is a memory code 14 for erratic PIP pulses.Was the car code free before this TFI problem cropped up? Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #10 – February 17, 2008, 09:26:04 PM Quote from: softtouch;204797I don't understand why you are getting code 34's. According to the documentation I have it should only apply to PFE (pressure feedback type EGR sensors). You should have EVPMy '85 Helm says it is a valid code. Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #11 – February 17, 2008, 09:48:28 PM Quote from: JeremyB;204799My '85 Helm says it is a valid code.My documentation shows it as a valid code for EVP during KOER but not KOEO or MEM.My documentation:Service Bulletin #089Diagnostic trouble codes for 1983-1992 Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #12 – February 17, 2008, 09:55:39 PM They call me Mr. IdidntreadenoughtoseethatitwasKOEOnotKOER. So sorry! Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #13 – February 17, 2008, 09:59:08 PM Quote from: softtouch;204797I don't understand this statement. The only input to the MAP is vacuum. They all share the same "reference voltage" 5v from EEC pin26. They also share the same "signal return" (logic ground) to EEC pin 46.your right, my mess up.Quote from: softtouch;204797I don't understand why you are getting code 34's. According to the documentation I have it should only apply to PFE (pressure feedback type EGR sensors). You should have EVPI dono either, but 34 it is.Quote from: softtouch;204797There are no KOEO codes for TFI. There is a memory code 14 for erratic PIP pulses.I did not realize that. Where'd you find that info at? SO in a no spark situation, you would have to have the engine running in order to see the defect? I cant understand why this is so because if there was a defect with the TFI during operation, the EEC should have record of it. THe car has been doing a little bucking often after warm up so i figured one day i would pull codes and narrow it down. Now that the bucking seems to have been cured , there is no record of any spark related items.Quote from: softtouch;204797Was the car code free before this TFI problem cropped up?I can not answer this because I did not pull codes on the car until today. My first time pulling codes since i bought it. Quote Selected
No start (SOLVED) Reply #14 – February 17, 2008, 10:04:35 PM By the way, my diy link i have,,,,,,,,,,i went to therangerstation.com and copied/pasted the list of codes from there.perhaps they are wrong but so far so good when and if i ever have to compare. Quote Selected
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