Supercooling?

Topic: Supercooling? (Read 2147 times) previous topic - next topic

Supercooling?

November 28, 2007, 08:40:32 PM

Has anyone tried to tie the A/c system into the intake tract to reduce air temp/increase boost? By that i mean cooling the air duct after the FMIC somehow with cold air pumped by the A/C. How much HP does the A/C pull compared to the boost you'd get....any thoughts? Is there a formula for boost compared to ambient air temps? Same with a cool can for the fuel. I am rerouting the battery to the trunk as well as moving the intake to the fenderwell and hiding the wiring, so i got lots-o-room to play. If i figure it out i'll let ya know.
oh yeah....this is on an 88TC. thanx for the help.

Supercooling?

Reply #1 – November 28, 2007, 08:59:36 PM

Ford did it in a concept vehicle not too long ago. Only problem I can see with doing it on an older car is the fact that the A/C compressor cuts out at WOT...

Supercooling?

Reply #2 – November 28, 2007, 09:43:45 PM

Quote from: Thunder Chicken;190069

Ford did it in a concept vehicle not too long ago. Only problem I can see with doing it on an older car is the fact that the A/C compressor cuts out at WOT...

easily bypassed.
doesnt the AC pull down 15-20hp when the clutch engages?

Supercooling?

Reply #3 – November 28, 2007, 09:59:31 PM

I know it'll stall a 5-horse 220v electric motor - we had a complete, functional automotive A/C system setup mounted to a sheet of plywood at the course I took to be certified to handle refrigerant, and the system would only run for about 7-8 seconds before it would draw the electric motor down to near dead stop.

As for bypassing the WOT cutout relay - it would be easily done, sure, but would it be wise? The compressor likely couldn't handle high engine speeds for long

Supercooling?

Reply #4 – November 28, 2007, 10:02:19 PM

Not worth the hassle and you will probly loose more power then you would ever gain

Supercooling?

Reply #5 – November 28, 2007, 10:05:14 PM

By the way, this may be getting off topic, but a 65-amp 2G alternator will stall a 5-horse Briggs & Stratton when charging a bank of batteries, too. I made a 12-volt generator for a friend who lives off the grid so he could top his batteries up on those rare non-windy days, and the 5-horse engine he gave me to make it with could not spin the alternator when under load. He ended up swapping an 8-horse engine in, which even still labours to spin it (and burns a lot of gas) when the batteries are way down.

Supercooling?

Reply #6 – November 28, 2007, 10:05:32 PM

my dad is an A/c man so i'll ask his advice on A/C theory. i cant figure directing cold air directly in the intake pipe due to vacuum issues...more i was thinking along the lines of the compressor lines wrapping around the intake tract...cooling the air after the FMIC. Again..does anyone know HP gains based on intake temps?

Supercooling?

Reply #7 – November 28, 2007, 10:10:35 PM

I've seen examples where stashing a few bags of ice on an intake will return faster 1/4 mile times.

Supercooling?

Reply #8 – November 28, 2007, 10:14:34 PM

this is what i was thinking of......http://www.instructables.com/id/S1LCVUWF54HJ6ST/
i aint looking for 24/7 fix, just an hour track time or 1/4 mile stuff.

Supercooling?

Reply #9 – November 28, 2007, 10:18:21 PM

Quote from: Thunder Chicken;190081

I know it'll stall a 5-horse 220v electric motor - we had a complete, functional automotive A/C system setup mounted to a sheet of plywood at the course I took to be certified to handle refrigerant, and the system would only run for about 7-8 seconds before it would draw the electric motor down to near dead stop.

WOW. WOW. and....WOW. I had no idea an automotive A/C compressor was that powerful. A 5 horse 220V motor is nothing to mess with....that is some freakin torque right there. Amazing. Well....I think our engines are able to handle that . Might have a little bit extra left over:hick:

Supercooling?

Reply #10 – November 28, 2007, 11:12:19 PM

Quote from: lakenheath24;190065

Has anyone tried to tie the A/c system into the intake tract to reduce air temp/increase boost?

I read something about this on the last-generation Lightning, not sure if it was an aftermarket thing, or stock.
The effect only lasted for about 30 seconds at a time, then it had to "regenerate". I wish I could find a link, but I KNOW I read about it.

Supercooling?

Reply #11 – November 29, 2007, 01:29:40 AM

240 ac motor at 15 amps is about 3.5kw of energy. Im just guessing the amperage of that motor your talking about.

I think our AC compressors have a plate with rating if im correct.

I think theres a way to reverse math that ac motor info into the DC world but thats pointless.

what we do know is horse power is horse power. 746x5,,,,, there abouts. Now when your car's ac compressor kicks on, not only does it bog out the engine rpm but it also demands current which causes the alternator to draw addtional horsepower as well.

Supercooling?

Reply #12 – November 29, 2007, 03:15:17 AM

A few issues:

1) Freon apparently doesn't like to be mixed with gasoline then set on fire.
2) With a standard A/C system, the cooling effect would only last a few seconds and take a long time to recharge. Imagine a 2 sec nitrous shot available every half hour.
3) As previously mentioned, the math is brutal
1 HP = 746W = 746 * 1V * 1 Amp
@12V, 1HP = ~62.2 Amps

The most practical system I can imagine would involve frankensteining together an A/C system where the entire underside of the car is covered with condensors.

These guys claim to have solved the issues:
http://www.laminova-online.se/
If you're interested, start saving your Kronas.

Supercooling?

Reply #13 – November 29, 2007, 07:36:39 AM

A: He's not talking about injecting freon(duh)he's talking about injecting the cooled A/C air wich can get down to almost zero degrees in today's systems.
B: Ford did do it on their concept lightning and claimed a 50hp increase when the button washiznit(almost like a shot of nos)and it onlt took a few minutes to fill the cooling tank again not a half an hour.
Where do you get your info from man?????????

Supercooling?

Reply #14 – November 29, 2007, 10:12:02 AM

I would think for the amount of work and parts involved you could find a simpler way. That all sounds way to complex for what you are looking to gain. You can make the same gains with other cheaper easier systems. Use Co2 sprayed on the I/c or even a shot of NOS. If you freeze the I/C I'm sure the air coming through it can't be to warm.