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Topic: Can a 3g be damaging overkill? (Read 18388 times) previous topic - next topic

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #45 –
His NATO article is less than impressive...

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #46 –
Yeah, I somewhat feel that way, too.  BUT, can anyone else say they've pulled it off?  Props on that at least.  And if we could get a few more details, it may reveal how it exactly was done...?
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #47 –
Looking at the NATO article again:

His wording is confusing but it seems he ran a 10 wire to the solenoid,  REPLACED the original output wire to the shunt with a new 10 gauge wire and then the third wire I can't figure out what he exactly went with it...  Why not just retain the original output wire (which already ties into all the right things) and ADD a 4 gauge to the solenoid, then re-pin the reg plug and be done (I'm assuming this is how most do it)?
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #48 –
Confusing^3.14159...

Wire 1 - Run from the alt. to the solenoid
Wire 2 - Run from the alt. to the original power wire. The original power cable is cut " a few inches from the huge splice" and then joined with the wire you just ran
Wire 3 - Run from the alt. to the yellow wire, downstream of the "huge splice".

There reason he chooses such an unorthodox wiring method is to keep the ammeter functional. Originally, all current passed through the BK/O wire, over the shunt wire, and to the starter relay, etc. The electrical flow is going right-to-left on the EVTM.

If you simply keep the 10AWG BK/O wire and add a 4AWG wire to the starter solenoid, you  can lose functionality of the ammeter. In a "perfect" circuit (no losses due to corrosion or connection resistance) the voltage at the S261 will be higher than S262, resulting in a ammeter showing a negative charge, when it is simply flowing L-R over the yellow wire.

I'll make a simple diagram to supplement the write-up...

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #49 –
Thanks dude, that'd be SO awesome!  I know it's been stated the gauge is basically useless, but I'd like to get it at least wired up right... 

So I'll still use my 4 gauge (already had it anyway) and then go buy a bit of 10 gauge to add these other lines in..?

Then I just have to figure out how to fit this new cable on my already over packed solenoid (got a mini starter with the extra solenoid on it so I have lots of big cables on the battery side of the solenoid)!
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #50 –
Ok, that's what I thought it meant.  I'm just confused why having two wires parallel to the yellow wire (essentially connecting at the same point) is any different than having just one...  but I guess it's cause I don't know a lot of in depth electrical stuff...  :(
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #51 –
Also, the yellow wire:  As seen in the photo below...  should I just loop it back to the output stud as seen below or keep it connected as it already is in the car (as jeff korn does it on NATO)?  Either way it's just a constant 12v, right?
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #52 –
The yellow wire to the A on the regulator is the voltage the regulator "looks" at to set the output voltage. If the regulator is set to regulate to 14 volts it adjusts the output until it "sees" 14 volts on the yellow wire.
To compensate for any losses in the wiring, which would be more during high current situations, the voltage at the alternator output would be higher than 14 volts.

Jeff Korn's write-up refers to the meter shunt as "a thick yellow wire"
[COLOR="Red"]IF[/COLOR] the shunt is 4 GA or bigger I would run a 4 GA wire from the alt. output to the shunt instead of the two 10 GA's that Jeff uses. Then replace the green 14 ga fuse link from the other end of the shunt wire to the starter solenoid with two grey 12 GA fuse links in parallel.

My '01 Grand Marquis has a 130 amp alternator. It has no stator output and no S input on the regulator. The connection between the two is made internally. It uses the two 12 ga fuse links in parallel to protect the 4 GA wire between the output and the battery.

If you use Jeff's hook-up add a 40amp fuse in the 10 GA wire from the alt. output to the starter solenoid.

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #53 –
yeah, I just didn't get why that connection would be external at all...

Anyway, I'm not following all of jeff's instructions.  The plan so far is something like:  4 gauge from alt to solenoid (200 amp fuse), 10 gauge from alt to shunt (per jeff's instructions - seemingly already there from the factory, don't get why he replaces it unless he meant to remove all these fuselinks from the solenoid and have them connect straight to this first 10 gauge coming from the alt) and then one more 10 gauge from the alt (spliced in just downstream of the first 10 gauge - for reasons I'm still unsure of!)...?  Is this making sense?

I'll take pics of my car wiring and making some diagrams of the plan after work...  in the meantime, feel free to correct me!
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #54 –
You need a fuse that is <135A on the 4AWG wire, the point of the fuse it to protect the wire. A 200A fuse on 4AWG wire will let the wire melt and potentially cause a short to ground.

Also, if you're going to use 4AWG to the solenoid, you can forgo the wire running to the shunt.

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #55 –
Well, two things...

1.  200 amp is the fuse PA Performance recommends/sells with there mustang upgrade kit...  i got the same fuse block and fuse they use...?!?!

2.  I wanted to connect the shunt wire to atleast have the amp gauge somewhat wire up right, even if it's not accurate...  Weren't you the one to say that Jeff's shunt connection was weird but done this way to achieve this?  Either way, that's the goal...

Pics coming...
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #56 –
oh, and there wire kits are all 4 gauge...

"All kits are provided with 200-amp Littlefuse Brand Fuse and Holder.  Based on Littlefuse performance specifications and tolerances this is the appropriate rating.  Please do not increase or decrease the fuse amperage value"
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #57 –
Ok, pic 1:  "Stock wiring configuration" (besides the fact that they are cut and taped together!)  Left to right:  black/orange (from alt stud), black/lt grn (ends), lt green/red (goes to blue fuse link then that splits into a bunch of wires and goes back into the bundle), and yellow/wht (meets up with shunt where they connect to a green fuselink --> solenoid).

One more pic with question coming...
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats
 

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #58 –
Ok, and pic 2:  Is that the shunt?
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Can a 3g be damaging overkill?

Reply #59 –
Yes that is the shunt. The other end of it is spliced to the green fuse link that goes to the solenoid.
What gauge do you think the shunt wire is?