Whole lot of questions

Topic: Whole lot of questions (Read 1343 times) previous topic - next topic

Whole lot of questions

September 16, 2007, 01:20:04 AM

I have read a lot of the threads on this forum and you guys seem pretty sharp so here goes a couple light ones for ya. When you guys call out the "waste gate", are you talking about this rediculous restrictive butterfly valve that is in the exhaust? If so It appears to be 100% machanicly driven by a pressure diaphram that pushes a drag link. What would be the problem with just building a new adjustable drag link? something like how a turnbuckle works. Further more since the boost is controlled mechanically by all that how have they detuned my 86 Thundercat so that I can't get fuul boost in low gear with the C-5?

Whole lot of questions

Reply #1 – September 16, 2007, 07:52:53 AM

http://www.turboford.net

Whole lot of questions

Reply #2 – September 18, 2007, 10:38:59 AM

Thanks for the link. There is a ton of info on that site if you can just find it. Opinions on there seem to be mixed about what keeps it from building boost in the lower gears. Can anyone tell me which pressure switch is which.

Whole lot of questions

Reply #3 – September 18, 2007, 11:19:48 AM

The wastegate is not a "rediculous restrictive butterfly valve that is in the exhaust". It has nothing to do with exhaust flow.

The wastegate is the small flapper door that is controlled by the wastegate actuator (the diaphram attached by a hose to the compressor side of the turbo) that controls the boost level by bleeding off excess boost pressure in the exhaust when a specified level is reached.

There is no boost control by gear on the pre 87-88 cars.

You aren't building full boost in low gear probably because of a lack of load on the engine.

An adjustable wastegate rod might help you preload the wastegate flapper a bit, but I doubt it will help much.

A spring/ball-type of manual boost controller could help as the waste gate actuator won't open the flapper until the desired boost is reached, but there is still no saying that you'll still get full boost in low gear.

Whole lot of questions

Reply #4 – September 18, 2007, 07:22:25 PM

Thanks for the info. The rod that goes to the flapper is driven by the diaphram that is connected to the pressure side of the turbo by a hose. The flapper in the exhaust down elbo is restrictive right?
This is my first Ford setup. On the other turbo setups I have worked on there was a port off the exhaust manifold with a valve the opened to let exhaust gas bypass hence not going through the turbine and not over spooling the turbo. This set up looks to be restrictive like what I have seen on deisel turbos. The problem with the restrictuve setup is it limits the natural ponies after the turbo has spooled to the desired pressure. An actual waste gate will allow the engine to run un restricted and the turbo just reaches it's boost level and stays there.
Would it be safe to call this setup an external butterfly waste gate? Here's an artical from wikipedia I read

wikipedia.org/wiki/Wastegate#Internal

As for the "Detune" I was talking about. I read somewhere that they detuned the auto car for the longjevity of the tranny. The article said that the cougar would not reach full boost of 12 pounds until third gear. I was assuming that the computer was taking feed back from the tranny for what gear it was in and it would limit fuel to keep mthe car from building exhaust gas. In order to do that it would have to have a pressur transducer or switch to tell teh computer that it has boost.
I read in your forums before about the ball/spring valve and I may give that a try. I also read something about there being a dummy light for overboost?

Whole lot of questions

Reply #5 – September 18, 2007, 08:26:56 PM

The exhaust elbow itself off the turbo is restrictive. The flapper on the T3 and the size of it's port is only an issue on hi-flow/high-boost applications where it is not big enough to adequately bleed off enough boost to avoid spiking.
The set-up on the Ford 2.3T;s is referred to as an "internal" wastegate.

Again, as mentioned, it has nothing to do with restricting exhaust flow out of the turbo into the exhaust.

The only issue is as mentioned before, the internal set-up will tend to start to open before the WGA setting is reached and can start to bleed off boost at lower settings. Increasing the preload on the WG flapper rod (with an adjustable type) or converting to a spring/ball type boost controller can help that.

On your '86 the ECU had NO idea what transmission is behind the engine. "Detuned" meant that the factory boost setting for the auto cars was lower than that of the manual cars. Like I said before, the reason you probably aren't seeing full boost in the lower gears is due to the lack of load on the engine.

Whole lot of questions

Reply #6 – September 19, 2007, 12:50:16 AM

Ok that explains a lot. I've never used an internal waste gate before. I do thank you for the help!
To be honest I think the first question I should have asked you is what type of head gasket do you guys use on the 2.3t setup. I used graphite for the srt-4's that I did (g%$D*^ Dodge). We were putting 34 lb's on it. All this stuff about the boost controller ain't gonna do me a bit of good with the head on the bench.
I'm just trying to learn all I can about the 2.3T before I get started. If any of this stuff needs to be changed I would think now is the time.

By the way my car has the C-% three speed in it. I have zero experience with these. What can it take.

Whole lot of questions

Reply #7 – September 19, 2007, 04:09:15 AM

Your car has a C3 trans, not a C5. C3 is basically a light duty version of the C4/C5. Im not sure how much it can take, but its well known that the A4LD in the 87-88's cant take much more than stock power for long. The A4LD is basically a C3 with overdrive, so I would imagine the C3 wouldnt be able to take much more... theres less parts to it so less things to break, but...

The 87-88's with the A4LD are the cars that were "detuned" from 190hp to 155hp. They cut the boost to help keep the trans in one piece, if that tells you anything about the auto's reliability.

Most people will say the autos are trash and a very few will say they have had no problems with them, one things for sure, you MUST at least install a trans cooler if you want to do anything more than granny it.

Whole lot of questions

Reply #8 – September 19, 2007, 09:57:11 AM

The A4LD is the overdrive version right?

Thats why I put the % sig in I was not sure which 3 speed was in my car. I wonder what it is that breaks under 200 hp and what would need to be upgraded to hold it. Whats your thoughts on shift kits.

I agree with most of what every one else says. T-5 would be the way to go but finding one out of a car is the trick. then you have to find the clutch assembly, and/or hydraulics/cable for it. As well I guy would have to have the time to install it. I also read a thread about using the ranger 5 speen and every one said no. Could a guy modify (shorten) the shifter or is the location of the shifter the problem.

The car has a stock trans cooler on the fron of the radiator. Should this be upgraded to something larger or perhaps more efficient