3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #60 – September 05, 2007, 09:45:29 AM per our sticky in here (electrical tech).....http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=13641&page=2you will find this plus Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #61 – September 05, 2007, 09:48:58 AM honestly, the real issue here is how did the battery voltage find a ground while the car was off? perhaps insulation melting off at the harness leading to each side of the solenoid? Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #62 – September 05, 2007, 10:35:27 AM The factory wires are fusible links at the solenoid, aren't they? If so, I can only see this happening if a fuse wasn't used or it was fused too high for the wire. A 10 gauge run can typically handle up to around 30 amps before you'll want to go larger. With the TC's alt on the drivers side, it can probably squeak by with 60 amps per cable but may get warm. Either way, true 4 gauge (don't get ripped off by the stuff with thick insulation) is cheap insurance and can handle around 150A with the lengths used in an engine bay. With a 200A+ alt, I'd go with 2awg wire.I use Kicker Hyperflex "1/0" myself (3/0 copper diameter) for my 130A alt and grounds...I get a whopping 14.6v at the battery, even under load, with exception of idle with my now-dead Mark8 fan drawing tons of juice (bad motor). Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #63 – September 05, 2007, 08:34:59 PM Like I said, I followed the directions over at NATO. I had no reason to doubt their claims that I could use 10 gauge wire...so I did. I didn't want to chance anything, so I got EVERYTHING they said to purchase. I trust the folks over there, and since that is their "official" write up on how to do the swap for a Turbo Coupe (which I owned), and since it did say to use 10 gauge wire...I did. Is NATO's write-up wrong? Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #64 – September 05, 2007, 10:37:46 PM In a word, without extra fecies flinging... yes it's wrong. I would use no less then 6 guage. Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #65 – September 05, 2007, 11:12:03 PM Doesnt it say to use three 10ga wires, and not just one?http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/3G%20Alternator/G3%20Alternator%20Install.htm Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #66 – September 05, 2007, 11:28:45 PM The "Third" piece of 10gauge wire I never used. That was for hooking up the AMP gauge. I did however use two pieces of 10gauge wire for the Alt. Output to the starter solenoid. Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #67 – September 06, 2007, 12:30:22 AM calculating cable sizeskxLLxA / VDk=resistance copper offers for one foot at 1 milimeter in diameter. Copper is 10.8 and this is a constant will never change unless very adverse temperatures apply (ie-maifold temps)(wonder why the o2 sensors have such a hard core insulation??)LL=loop length. We only have a distance from the alternator of a generous estimation of 3 feet. A= ampacity source,,ie-130amp alternator./VD= allowable voltage drop per foot of cable. Using 1 is very very agressive as most companies use .5 or .8 so wire costs and actual power factors are corrected along with wire designs. reducing your actual "allowable voltage drop" actually changes your wire size.so.................K x LL x A=10.8 x 3 x 130 = 4212cmilnow devide this by your "allowable voltage drop". I will devide by 1. answer stays the same.4212cmilor 4kcmilor 4awgnow derate this to an 80% power factor and you can use 6000cmil or 6kcmil, otherwise called 6awg.going anything larger than 4awg is i suppose your choice.Depending on the wire type ford supplied, wiring ampacities range like this....10awg in "FREE AIR" is only good up to 40-107 amps6awg in "FREE AIR" is only good up to 80-205 amps4awg in "FREE AIR" is only good up to 105-278 amps.its likely ford used type RHW-2 which is a mid range insulation and if this is true for all wires then it goes like this..10awg-55amps6awg-105amps4awg-140ampsSO>>>>>from now on to find your wire size for both AC or DC applications,,,multiply 10.8 x loop length x amperage and you'll come up with a big number. just move your decimal to the left three places and that is your KCMIL wire size. Deviding by any number less than 1 volt will change your wire size. (typically .5v to .8v.references:my memoryuglys electrical references 2002 Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #68 – September 06, 2007, 01:01:29 AM ok,, i just read the link and i think its utter bullshiznit.connecting three sections of 10awg to the back of the 3g.run one lead up to the batt side of the starter solenoid run the other two leads down into the existing harness and fabricate it in.If what i am reading is correct, it appears hes reducing your previous ampacity rating on wiring leading up to the solenoid.what a crock,,, "just tape up after you solder" I dont get a feeling this guy passed on professional info.Connecting the alternator output. On a 5.0, this is easy… just run a 4 or 6 gauge wire from the output stud on the alternator to the battery terminal on the starter solenoid. Unfortunately, due to wiring differences between our cars and 5.0s, which is mainly due to the amp gauge on our cars, this is a somewhat more involved process. I am sure there are other ways to do this, but using my method does not overload any of the smaller power feed wires, and pretty much preserves the operation of the amp gauge. [COLOR="Red"]Cut two sections of 10 gauge wire about a foot long, and a third section about two feet long.[/COLOR] Put ring terminals on one end of each, and secure to the alternator output stud. Do not over tighten this connection. [COLOR="red"]Put another ring terminal on the other end of the longer 10 gauge wire, and attach this wire to the battery stud on the starter solenoid. [/COLOR] Be sure to solder, as well as crimp the wires to the ring terminals.Now comes the fun part. Locate the huge taped bundle of wires mid way between the alternator and the starter solenoid. This is the main wiring junction. The original output wire from the original alternator goes into this bundle. Use a knife, razor blade, etc. to cut the tape off the bundle. Inside you will find a thick yellow wire with a huge splice into several fuse links at each end. The yellow wire is the shunt wire for the amp gauge. Follow the original alternator power output wire to the splice at one end of the yellow wire. Cut the original power wire a few inches from the huge splice, and connect it to one of the two remaining 10 gauge wires from the alternator. Be sure to fully solder and tape this connection. Use a knife or razor blade to remove about ¾” length of insulation from the thick yellow wire near the same end that the alternator power wire is spliced in to. Strip some insulation from the last 10 gauge wire coming from the alternator, wind it around the bare section of the yellow wire, solder completely, and tape the connection up. Push the wires all back together, and retape the whole bundle up so it looks more or less like it did. A tie wrap around the whole mess of wires will help hold them together before you tape them up. Next, tape wrap the bundle of three 10 gauge wires with a good layer of tape, and enclose in split loom to eliminate any possibility of the wires chaffing. Note this is shown in figure five also. Plug the regulator and stator plugs into the new alternator from the bottom. Last, securely reconnect the positive battery cable. You are done! Note that if you try to skimp, and just run ONLY the original power wire only to the new alternator, you WILL overheat the wire, and possibly start a fire due to the high current output of the alternator! Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #69 – September 06, 2007, 01:59:25 AM Jesus.I'm sorry to hear about your car man.But the comments you posted as well as the little link to Suicide's definition were completely asinine. Screw you. You dont pull shiznit like that when there are obviously people around who care about you and your project. Now there is one less. Me. The bad part about it is that another TC is gone. I AM glad nobody got hurt, and I do feel your pain. I had an 88 sport burn to the ground about 5 years back, and it still hurts. But **** YOU for your little stunt. Thats all I have to say. Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #70 – September 06, 2007, 02:11:05 AM *shrug* Jeff Korn wrote the article, hes one of the bigger tech guys over at nato. Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #71 – September 06, 2007, 05:29:23 PM Quote from: DMC24guy;174631The "Third" piece of 10gauge wire I never used. That was for hooking up the AMP gauge. I did however use two pieces of 10gauge wire for the Alt. Output to the starter solenoid.Bad idea to hook the output of the alternator directly to the starter solenoid, which is hooked directly to the battery.While this will work as long as there is no problem, there is no circuit protection if there is a short inside the alternator/regulator.The original green wire shown in your pictures of the solenoid is a 14 gauge fuse link that was the output of the original alternator.A fuse link is a wire that is 4 wire sizes smaller than the wire it is protecting. It has a fire proof insulation so there is no fire if the wire burns off. In this case the 14 ga fuse link would be protecting a 10 ga wire.I read through Jeff Korns write up.He replaces the original alternator output wire with three 10 ga. wires. Two of them go to the same place the original wire went.These would be protected by the original fuse link.One of them goes directly to the starter solenoid. This is bad design. This wire should have gone through a fuse or fuse link. Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #72 – September 06, 2007, 09:37:59 PM Quote from: bhazard;174662*shrug* Jeff Korn wrote the article, hes one of the bigger tech guys over at nato.Yup and that's good enough for me... Jeff is one of the most knowledgeable guys over there(teaches physics), he knows what he's doing... When I did my 3G I just added a parallel piece of 10ga I cut out of the Taurus that donated the alt... Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #73 – September 06, 2007, 10:01:51 PM That's exactly what I did. I had two parallel pieces of 10gauge wire with two Rings soldered on each end. I still can't figure out what caused the fire. The Most "damage" appears to be right around the Regulator on the remains of the Alternator. Like where the fire burned most intensely. Quote Selected
3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe Reply #74 – September 06, 2007, 10:08:51 PM So how "bad" is the fire. You say the car was destroyed but is that over reacting? Quote Selected
Topic: 3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe (Read 25679 times)
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Topic: 3G Installation Failure: The Death of a Turbo Coupe (Read 25679 times)
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