NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Topic: NOS FMS ducktail spoiler (Read 3566 times) previous topic - next topic

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #30 – August 16, 2007, 12:04:00 PM

Here are some pics of an original Kaminari 83-86 3-piece spoiler sitting on Layla (88) to show you what I mean. The decklids are the same width themselves, but the 1/4's at the ends of the car are far different. The 83-86 is "fatter" and straighter. The 87-88 tucks "in" at the corners.

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #31 – August 16, 2007, 12:05:27 PM

That last picture above ^^^ shows why the 87-88 FMS would smack the 1/4's when closed. Here's 2 more with the Kaminari and one with the Xenon 1-piece on on my 87 Sport.

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #32 – August 16, 2007, 12:07:05 PM

See the "curve" built into the Kaminari on that side-on shot for the curve in the decklid, not flat?

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #33 – August 17, 2007, 11:16:49 AM

Mike,

I'm sorry, but you have not convinced me that the spoiler you have is an '87-'88 specific Ford Motorsport spoiler and the #1 reason is the part number.
Ford Motorsport only listed one spoiler in all of the years it was listed in their catalogs (1987-1990). It was listed as '83-'86 model specific and the part number was M-44210-A621. The same part number on yours.

I have studied the pictures in my Spoilers Plus brochure (the company that produced them for Ford) and I am certain that the spoiler they have pictured on the '83-'86 cars is same one installed on '87-'88 cars. It may have been originally designed to fit the early cars, but I think it will fit the later cars as well.
The company even touted their product as being made from a "... combination of Nylon and Urethane...offering the ultimate in flexability..." This probably made it flexible enough at the three mounting points to conform to the differences between the two bodies.

I have never heard of a Ford Motorsport '87-'88 specific spoiler before until you had mentioned it. Can you show any documentation to back this up statement?

Brent
:cougarsmily:

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #34 – August 17, 2007, 06:10:44 PM

That's what I was told by the Ford dealer selling it (closing their doors, in the midwest).

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #35 – August 17, 2007, 10:46:53 PM

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;167291

This is it. The real deal, an NOS Ford Motorsports (FMS) rear ducktail spoiler for 87-88 T-Birds. I bought this spoiler as the last known one in Ford's inventory, new in the box. It has NEVER been mounted to a car. I had it sealer primed to protect it. NO damage. Simply prep, paint, and install. 100% perfect. The nicest FMS spoiler left not on a car. VERY rare.

$500 plus shipping.

In 1 week it goes to evilbay for the highest bidder.

Just curious, is that gray the sealer prime you had done to protect it? I take it was all orange before the sealer?

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #36 – August 18, 2007, 11:49:38 AM

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;169935

That's what I was told by the Ford dealer selling it (closing their doors, in the midwest).

You mean you just sold a spoiler for $500 claiming it was an extremely rare 87-88 spoiler based solely on what a Ford parts dept guy from a bankrupt dealership told you, without checking out those claims first? You sold a spoiler that you're not even 100% sure exists?

Oh, Michael, Michael, Michael...

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #37 – August 18, 2007, 11:42:39 PM

Cougars 2 go - The FMS spoiler is the yellow/gray one. It's molded in yellow urethane and I had the gray sprayed on 2-3 years ago. The red/gray one is a used Kaminari 3-piece 83-86 spoiler. It was painted red when I got it.

Carm - I sold a spoiler that to the best of my knowledge was a 87/88 only piece. I wish BCA would have started all of this BEFORE it sold. It doesn't matter, as we still can't prove one way or another, and even if it is *just* a 83-86 one, as I previously mentioned, "Last one sold on eBay in 2005 for $571 plus $98 shipping (that I saw anyways) and it wasn't NOS" so $500 for the NOS one is still MORE then fair.

BCA - I really wish you could have told me all of this *before* it sold. Here's what I have as FACTS:

1. I bought this spoiler from a Ford dealer, direct, after seeing ads on eBay some 3-4 years ago. They were clearing out the entire inventory, and they were a major FMS dealer in the 80's/90's. I was told it was an 87 piece, but bought based on the fact that ANY FMS spoiler is a "spicy meatball".

2. The box arrived slightly damaged, but no damage was done to the spoiler. No instructions or paperwork was included, but there was a box flap (which is around here somewhere). All of the other parts I bought from this dealer were/are legit and exactly what they stated (87/88 TC shift , 83/84 TC console plate, metal 2.3 timing cover).

3. When I attempted to lay this spoiler on my 84 parts car, it looked "off". After taking the trunk off, we decided it would hit the 1/4's and must have been an 87 piece.

I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you, but everything else I have is simply speculation. Again, I *really* wish you could have done this earlier, but it's not a big deal. I sold the spoiler to a friend and if it fits they will be happy, and I guess that's what matters.

I know Ford is notorious for part # screwups and having multiple versions of the same part #, especially in the FMS/FR line. I have ordered pushrods and gotten 3 different lengths from the same part # before. Could it be possible that they simply "added a little meat" to the spoiler in that 1/4 area and left it the same #?

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #38 – August 19, 2007, 07:35:12 PM

Mike, once again, not trying to start a shiznit storm here (although I have a feeing the clouds, they're a-thickening), but the reason I said that is that you, yourself claim to be the final word on Thunderbirds. You might not actually have claimed that by actually typing those words, but you have presented yourself in this forum as an expert on the 87-88 Turbo Coupe. Whether you like it or not, people take your words for truth because you've led them to believe that you know what you're talking about. You've built a foundation of expectations, and that foundation is showing cracks, as far as I'm concerned.

The '87 Sport axle was one thing (in which you actually claimed to have gotten under the car and verified it was an 8.8" traction-lock rear, sold it to a board member based on those claims, then had the board member discover, after driving to your place, that it was really a 7.5" open rear). You blamed that on Ford mislabeling the car even though you had previously claimed to have verified with your own eyes that it was an 8.8" stick.

Now we have this spoiler thing. Once again you're blaming it on Ford, claiming, hoping, that the part number is inaccurate.

In both cases YOU were wrong (the spoiler maybe not 100% certain, but no doubt whatsoever with that rear end) but instead of admitting it, you threw up a bunch of excuses and threw around a bunch of blame.

After you had to deal with THIS I would have expected you to take better precautions.

Misrepresenting items for sale on this board, whether intentional or by mistake, is a black mark not just on you but on this whole message board. We do NOT want people going around saying "I got ripped off in the FCTBMB "for sale" section.

All three admins plus Chuck, the moderator of the Marketplace section, have been discussing this. Not just you, Michael, but some other issues with other sellers that have been brought to our attention as well. This section needs fixing, and right now I'm unsure how to fix it.

Until I (or we) can think of something, I would respectfully request that from now on, ANY seller selling ANYTHING should be able to prove any claims they make, or even suggest, in their advertisp00gets. If you're claiming it's NOS or rare be prepared to prove it. Also, unless you're prepared to part with something you're selling RIGHT NOW, and unless that item is in your possession RIGHT NOW, and not in somebody else's car the next county over that you're thinking of buying to part out, do not sell it.

As a seller it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that what you are selling is being represented truthfully. "But this guy said..." or "But he TOLD me I could have it" are not valid excuses.

As for buyers: Do your homework, as well. If it seems fishy don't dangle your worm in front of it. It is YOUR resposnibility to ask the right questions.

Sorry this had to come about in your thread and seem as if I'm singling you out, Michael. It's not just you, you've just provided the most glaring, recent example. We admins are simply getting tired of getting complaints and being expected to referree.

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #39 – August 19, 2007, 08:16:08 PM

Sorry I'm not perfect. At least I've resolved any and every sales issue to the customer's satisfaction.

On the Sport rear, we pulled it out of the car and popped the cover before any cash changed hands. Once Matt had it home and verified everything on it, he emailed me. Even though I had already lowered the price on it, I simply sent him a 75% refund, which he agreed too. He's happy, and that's what matters. If you make a mistake selling, own up to it and make it right, which is what I did. Matt has never said anything to me to suggest otherwise.

I'm no expert, I've just owned a ton of these, especially the 87/88 TC, and taken them all apart and back together again. Brent and Eric are two people here that DEFINITELY know more then me. I wish Brent would have piped up sooner, but again the spoiler was sold below market value, and the buyer is happy.

I list my personal cell phone #, which can be called at any reasonable time. People here know me, and know that if I DO mess up, I'll make it right.

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #40 – August 19, 2007, 10:27:47 PM

Ok, Mike, if you want to continue...

Nobody expects anybody to be perfect. Honest, yes. Perfect, no. Like I said: I realize you may have honestly thought you had an authentic FMS 87-88 Spoiler on your hands, but my point was that you've given people the idea that you know what you're talking about and therefore your word can be taken at face value. You should not have had to depend on Brent to do your research for you, especially after the sale had been made. You're the one that is always telling us how much you know about these cars and telling us about all the old literature you've got in your possession.

As for the customer that bought the spoiler: Is he happy, but in ignorance? In other words, is he happy because he still thinks he bought an 87-88 spoiler, or is he aware that there is a very good chance that he hasn't, but he is still happy? I'd be interested in knowing...

Like I said: The spoiler thing may have been an honest mistake. A preventable one perhaps, but a mistake nonetheless. Nobody's perfect.

The Sport rear is an entirely different story.

My point was that the rear end should have been verified before it was even listed for sale. Strengthening my point is the fact that you claimed that you DID verify it. Some snippets from the threads you posted about that car:

Quote from: ABM

It's DEFINATELY (sic) an 8.8.
The rear end looks IDENTICAL to Layla's (except the brakes)
2.73 posi rear (has an 8.8 with sway bar, unkown (sic) whether it's original yet)
I crawled under it agai,(sic) DEFINATELY (sic) an 8.8 and the sway bar is the same thickness as Layla's.

This can only lead me to believe that either

A) You wouldn't recognize an 8.8" rear if one bit you in the ass (somewhat hard to believe, if you've owned as many as you say)

or

B) You flat out lied, and didn't check the rear out at all, even though you made more than one claim that you did.

I would not have expected you to disassemble the rear to verify the differential and gears, but would certainly expect something as simple as taking a peek under the car's butt to verify the housing, something you claimed you "DEFINATELY" did, especially given that I personally informed you that '87 Sports did not come from Ford with 8.8" rears.

Finding out that rear was a 7.5" rear only after selling it, after claiming to have verified that it was an 8.8, was not an honest mistake. You told us you checked. You obviously didn't.

All of this is simply a roundabout way of backing up my previous request: Before selling anything on this forum (or, one would hope, any other forum or selling media, including ebay), please verify that you are representing it accurately. This request applies to everybody. I really don't think it's an unreasonable request.

If I'm coming across as a prick, so be it. I'm suffering 'flu right now and am not feeling particularly pleasant nor apologetic. I've been cooped up inside for three days and just may be venting my spleen. Deal with it.

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #41 – August 19, 2007, 10:44:15 PM

The sway bar was the same, the springs were the same, and the thing LOOKED like an 8.8. Matt couldn't tell either. I've only owned 3-4 NON-TC's so I wouldn't know a 7.5 if it bit me in the ass. We verified that it was not the original rear (or did not match the door tag at the very least) before the sale was made. Once Matt figured out it was a 7.5 I made it right. I *never* claimed to be smart in Sport/V8/non-TC's.

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #42 – August 19, 2007, 11:00:40 PM

What I'd like to know is why you are placing blame on Brent for 'not asking you sooner' about the spoiler?
Why is it anyone's responsibility but your own when you are the one selling it. You make claims to know what you are talking about in many threads.... either you have no clue what you are talking about, and therefore lying about it to make yourself look good, or you do know what you are talking about and are lying to make a sale.
Either way, you are being dishonest with people you are trying to sell to.

Personally, I think your selling privileges should be revoked from this board for a set amount of time. As it was mentioned you make the rest of the place look bad.

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #43 – August 19, 2007, 11:32:00 PM

Personally I think you should drive off the nearest cliff.

I am not the one making this place look bad. You will not find a single customer who has not been dealt with right.

Brent is the only person on here who would really be able to identify a part one way or another with 100% certainty. If he thought the spoiler was NOT an 87 unit, he should have mentioned it right away. That's not a blame, that's just an opinion.

NOS FMS ducktail spoiler

Reply #44 – August 19, 2007, 11:35:01 PM

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;170495

Personally I think you should drive off the nearest cliff.

sorry, it was funny. as you were.