Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #15 – April 24, 2007, 10:43:23 PM it...I said to myself I wouldn't rant in this one....thanks a lot! Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #16 – April 24, 2007, 11:30:59 PM Quote from: Billyf17;142652 it...I said to myself I wouldn't rant in this one....thanks a lot!It is indeed all about money, and that applies at all levels, from big corporations to the guy delivering pizzas. Economics, not legislation, will drive people to conserve energy (and thus pollute less). As prices for oil, gas, electricity, and yes, even food, go up, people will consume less. The sad part is that the truly poor people will be the ones to feel it hardest. Just about anybody can conserve some fuel, whether it be from something big like buying a smaller vehicle, or something medium, like replacing all their light bulbs and appliances with energy efficient units, or something small like shutting off the car and going into the Tim Horton's for coffee instead of idling 15 minutes in a drive through or turning off the TV when nobody is in the room. Sadly, food is the one thing that poor people can't really cut down on, seeing as they can barely afford what they buy.I just today saw two examples of people burning FAR more fuel than required. Example #1 was our local rural mail carrier. These are contracted out by Canada Post and they drive their own vehicles. Ours drives a 1997-ish 4WD Dodge Durango. Imagine the fuel she'd save by driving something like a Saturn wagon from mailbox to mailbox over her 20 mile route each day...Example #2 was the Nova Scotia Power meter reader. He pulled up today, as he does every second month (power meter is read bi-monthly) in a 4WD, extended cab Ford Ranger. This vehicle belongs to NSP. It is a fairly new vehicle - the meter reader used to drive a Ford Focus (again, painted in NSP colours).The corporations involved both recoup the money they waste by gouging customers. Canada Post charges a fuel surcharge to help offset high fuel costs (the mail carrier gets very little of this fuel surcharge, of course - they are paid for their mileage, regardless of their choice of vehicle). Nova Scotia power has been crying poor-mouth for three years asking for (and getting) rate increases to pay for higher fuel costs. Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #17 – April 25, 2007, 01:25:38 AM QuoteIt's all about money...it's always been about money...no one who is anyone in a corporation can think about anything else. Goodyear showed just how corporations work...the dumber you are, the higher up you get. And typically the more money you have, the dumber you are. The smart ones are hired as drones and do all the fancy talk and if they get paid enough, they'll do the number tricks that scare people into believing what the dumb ones want.Your making me puny, you are on the money, and could put that one in the bank. he he. Seriously, you couldn't be more right. Bussiness is about one thing and one thing only........$$$$$$$$ Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #18 – April 25, 2007, 12:17:43 PM Quote from: FordTruckFreeek;142624To my way of thinking...a coupla hundred years' worth of smog and shiznit being put off is not even one tenth waht that big-assed volcano did about 1200 years ago (can't remember then name..Vesuvius??)On the other hand, the Earth has been undergoing this heating and cooling cycle for millenia...it's just the last thousand years or so the humankind can record and remember such events...there is NOTHING we can do to stop the shiznit...yeah, let's all quit driving our cars for a month or two?? Big f'n whoop...The poles will melt down some anyway, which means increased water on the planet, which means more rain, which means more of everything we've been having...smog may have affected it SOMEWHAT, but i'd bet my nuts that isn't the direct cause of any of it. Not to rag on all you people...i know it's a wise idea to take care of the environment....but i'm sick to death of some over-paid fatcat who "thinks" he/she has the perfect answer.IF this is such the case...why not hydrogen fuel vehicles NOW...the technology is here now....Sorry for being an ass..but....we can't really change this thing.Did you read the later link I posted. We can, and are, changing this thing. And we did do our part to cause it.Remember back in the 80's when people were 'crying wolf' about the Ozone layer thinning, causing an increased temperature? Remember how no one payed any attention to it. Well here we are 20 years later, seeing further effects. IT IS HAPPENING!!!!! I don't understand why anyone is still arguing. (I'm beginning to understand Bird351, with so many choosing to hold their heads in the sand)Mullally isn't claiming to have the perfect answer. He's saying Ford will do its part to make changes. It will be a little more responsible. No one entity can make 'the change'.It's like the state of our Oceans. For so long marine biologists have been warning us that we're overfishing, but you ask any fisherman his opinion on it. He has his head in the sand too. Just because we don't want to believe that we're responsible for these effects, it doesn't mean we should risk (and in the opinion of 90% of the educated planet 'continue') burning it up any moment sooner than nature will.And smoking isn't really bad for you, is it? (we've all heard that argument, which plays out exactly the same)My point is, we can sit here and argue until we're red in the face (two-way cliche), but we're just being arrogant. I'm going to take the word of the men and women who dedicate their lives to observing the various ecosystems on our planet, and plotting the changes, causes, and timelines. Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #19 – April 25, 2007, 12:58:38 PM I'd have been impressed if he'd announced Ford was going to start building all flex fuel vehicles, or was spending a significant sum of money to develop alternative fuel vehicles that people will acutally be able to afford to drive. Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #20 – April 25, 2007, 01:04:56 PM QuoteMulally's an idiot.I don't trust redheads. Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #21 – April 25, 2007, 05:24:45 PM Ozone....yeah...the hole in the Ozone layer is getting smaller....the hole over Antarctica has gotten over 20% smaller since 2003. So....yeah....oops. Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #22 – April 25, 2007, 06:37:47 PM Quote from: oldraven;142709It's like the state of our Oceans. For so long marine biologists have been warning us that we're overfishing, but you ask any fisherman his opinion on it. He has his head in the sand too.Truer words were ne'r spoken. We always hear fishermen crying that their way of life is disappearing through pollution and foreign overfishing, but I know a lot of fishermen that would do well to practice what they preach. Virtually every fisherman I've ever met (know lots of lobstermen) brings in way, WAY more than he is entitled. I can't say with certainty that 100% of them do it, but in my experience the percentage would be in the high 90's. They bring in undersized lobsters, "seed" lobsters (females bearing eggs - they just se the eggs off and throw the lobster in the tank), they put out twice as many traps as they're allowed (and thanks to GPS, which makes it possible for them to find their unmarked traps, this is getting more common)......and they ALL complain that everyone else is doing it.Quote from: Billyf17;142794Ozone....yeah...the hole in the Ozone layer is getting smaller....the hole over Antarctica has gotten over 20% smaller since 2003. So....yeah....oops.Oops indeed - you don't suppose that might have something to do with us recognizing the Ozone problem and doing something about it (such as banning R12 over a decade ago, plus not using CFC's as propellants)? You've only proven Oldraven's point that we CAN do something about it...You know, eagles have been making quite a comeback over the past 40+ years, too. Maybe we should start using DDT again... Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #23 – April 25, 2007, 08:38:33 PM Quote from: Autocat;142549cliff notes?Global Climate Change = New Business ProfitsBusiness has finally figured out their's money to be made and they have their ducks in a row or well on the way to make it. Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #24 – April 25, 2007, 09:30:09 PM My point is that the ozone hole is caused by the cfc's and all that stuff. It takes about 15-20 years for the stuff to reach the ozone layer. And then the stuff lives there for another 30-80 years potentially. So if peak production was before 1989 when cfc's were banned, then wouldn't the hole be getting bigger, faster now? And not to mention that cfc's were banned here in North America...but were still produc.....still ARE being produced else where in the world. R-12, btw, was one of the most smuggled materials a few years back. Anyway, my point is the hole should be getting bigger and new holes should be forming. I understand that us doing something about it is helping the problem, but the repairing affects shouldn't be this evident this early. Just maybe.....out of some stretch....we, as smart as some of us human beings are, are just incapable, at this time, of understanding how something as massive as the ozone layer works 100%. I read somewhere that the holes were natural forming and part of a process that changes every few centuries. So holes form, then close up, new holes form elsewhere, then close up, so on so forth. Nobody knows for sure....this is why there are so few laws in the science world. Most are theories and get proven wrong at a later date. I agree waiting for the theories to get proven wrong is a bad idea...but perhaps our way of handling certain situations is a bit rushed in approach. It's a big big planet, we'll never be able to control 100% what happens on it, in it, or around it...ever.So, in conclusion....it's all about money....:D Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #25 – April 25, 2007, 09:44:40 PM Yeah the Ice Core samples go back more than a thousand years so buttstuffyzing what was in the air at points in time beyond a thousand years ago is right there with it. The mini Ice age that happened going from warm back to cold didn't happen overnight so it wasn't a super volcano or Meteor like event. Scientists calculated that it happened over the course of 70 years. This is from the buttstuffysis of the relevant Ice core samples for the years involved. 8 or 9 years ago it was theorized that a large body of ice melted into the northern atlantic as the last great Ice age came to an end. This caused the North Atlantic Conveyor to slow down which pulls warmer water from the pacific rim around the world which warms the northern latitudes in our hemisphere. This underwater river which had been speculated and now confirmed to exist can be simulated by heavily doping a volume of water pressurizing it then adding a layer of fresh water on top. The salt water will actually have it's own descernable surface which you can actually float objects on. Yeah under the fresh water. The incredible pressures at the bottom of the ocean combined with evaporating water in the northern hemisphere in the past drove this underwater river around the world by increasing the saltiness of ocean water causing it to actually sink and move along the ocean bottom. I have seen film footage of both of these phenomenons. If nothing else makes sense the uncertainty from the current data is enough to give everyone pause. I know every one here has a level of uncertainty great enough, in their personal lives to cause them to buy auto insurance at least and if you have families a lot of other insurances as well. So what's one more insurance??Their are solutions. Some have been sited here in just the last six months. I'm suprised everyday how many people are toiling away we don't even know about. Like the guy who recently came out with the Plasma recycling plant. You throw any garbage in, the plasma through the process of molecular dissociation, breaks the garbage down into a safe synthesis fuel gas called Plasma Converted Gas. You can burn the gas and drive a generator to make electric to run the plant and sell electric back to the grid. The company is called Star Tech environmental, StHK.OB on the stock market. If you have any investment money you might consider investing in this baby. The military has purchased a plant to get rid of hazardous materials and some other countries in South America have contracted to buy plants. It's scalable technology and the inventer has been working for over a decade to get the kinks out of the process. The only thing you can't throw in it is nuclear waste. Everything else is fair game. The big thing is unlike land fills and other forms of disposal it makes money! That's what businesses want. :D Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #26 – April 25, 2007, 10:06:35 PM Quote from: Billyf17;142834So, in conclusion....it's all about money....:DQuote from: Jonathan Phillips;142836The big thing is unlike land fills and other forms of disposal it makes money! That's what businesses want. :DAnd here lies the problem: The general public is in a big outcry about fuel prices, and we're all looking for cheaper alternatives. We say we want clean fuel, but in reality we want cheap fuel. That simply is not going to happen. You know what would happen if all of a sudden somebody came up with a way of creating a gasoline replacement that could sell profitably for a buck a gallon?One of two things:One: Big oil would snap up the patents so fast we'd never have heard about it to begin with. They'd buy the patents from the creator and sit on them, preventing anyone else from marketing the fuel. They don't want us using alternatives to their products.Two: If, for some reason, the creator of said mystery fuel was some kind of philanthropist that wanted to help mankind. Let's say he had absolutely no interest in selling the patents to big oil, and let's say that he actually made the formula public (after patenting it himself, he could allow free license to produce it, kind of an "Open source" fuel). Let's pretend that the government, which controlled by big business, actually acted with the public interest in mind and allowed this to happen. The big oil companies then could not stop people from making, selling, buying and using this fuel.Ya know what would happen then?Gasoline would cost 80 cents a gallon. Big oil would bankrupt the miracle fuel manufacturers by undercutting them in price (remember, this fuel has to sell for a buck a gallon to be profitable). Once the miracle fuel supply dried up gasoline would skyrocket in price again.They've got us by the short & curlies. This is why I still insist that the only way we can save on fuel is to use less of it on an individual level. Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #27 – April 26, 2007, 03:24:02 AM Quote from: Billyf17;142834Just maybe.....out of some stretch....we, as smart as some of us human beings are, are just incapable, at this time, of understanding how something as massive as the ozone layer works 100%. you're making Thunder Chickens' point for him. Something as big as the world environment should be handled more carefully, because we're unsure...Put some things in perspective too. The biggest coal consumer in 2002 was China at 1370 MT. The U.S. in 2005 only consumed 1010 MT. China is also the second greatest energy consumer (behind the United States), accounting for about 10.8% of the world's total annual energy consumption. Fuel cost is priced there roughly as follows: sulfered coal produced .15 Yuan[.02 cents]/kWh or unsulfered produced .17 Yuan [.022 cents] /kWh. Of course even at this rate if the average wage earner there consumed the same amount of electricity as I did last year here it would cost s/he twice the amount it would me out of pocket. Just imagine what consumption will be like when things there really get going. Check this out: China National Coal plans US$1 bln HK IPO(Agencies)Updated: 2005-02-27 14:12China National Coal Group Corp., the country's number two coal producer, is hiring banks to prepare a Hong Kong stock listing this year to raise about US$1 billion to expand output as China's coal shortage persists. The firm invited a number of U.S. and European investment banks, including Dutch bank ABN Amro , to pitch for a mandate in a so-called beauty parade last week to underwrite the initial public offering (IPO), a source close to the situation said on Sunday. "It is in the process of hiring banks to run the IPO, which is likely to raise US$1 billion or more," the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told Reuters. "It is not going to be launched in two days but the process will begin." Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #28 – April 26, 2007, 04:54:57 AM Quote from: Thunder Chicken;142839One of two things:One: Big oil would snap up the patents so fast we'd never have heard about it to begin with. They'd buy the patents from the creator and sit on them, preventing anyone else from marketing the fuel. They don't want us using alternatives to their products.Two: If, for some reason, the creator of said mystery fuel was some kind of philanthropist that wanted to help mankind. Let's say he had absolutely no interest in selling the patents to big oil, and let's say that he actually made the formula public (after patenting it himself, he could allow free license to produce it, kind of an "Open source" fuel). Let's pretend that the government, which controlled by big business, actually acted with the public interest in mind and allowed this to happen. The big oil companies then could not stop people from making, selling, buying and using this fuel.Ya know what would happen then?Gasoline would cost 80 cents a gallon. Big oil would bankrupt the miracle fuel manufacturers by undercutting them in price (remember, this fuel has to sell for a buck a gallon to be profitable). Once the miracle fuel supply dried up gasoline would skyrocket in price again.They've got us by the short & curlies. This is why I still insist that the only way we can save on fuel is to use less of it on an individual level.Well I don't know about the economics of all that but the company is real. http://www.startech.net/faqs.html.Here's a Q/A from the site that gives the company a little mileage in my book:Q: Is performance insurance available and can Startech provide financing? A: Yes, performance insurance is available to qualified buyers. The insurance provides coverage for a buyer's intended waste stream as well as for the successful permitting of the Plasma Converter system for the specific application.Startech can arrange project financing for creditworthy buyers and will consider taking an equity position in a joint development arrangement for those projects that offer an attractive financial return.They also opened a 6,000 square foot Demonstration and Training Center located in Bristol, Connecticut. Check their site out. They are literally a 21st century equivillent to APPLE or MICROSOFT of the 70s' and 80s' in my opinion. Don't sell a small company short. Remember what happened to IBM when MICROSOFT really got going. Could they get bought up and picked apart? Sure; They are a public company, but if the process is sound I would think a big energy company would co-opt it rather than kill it. Another thing in their favor is that the inventors behind the products are still innovating, creating new ways to use the process. Anyone who tries to compete would have to get ahead of them in their technology. The process doesn't defy the second law, so more energy is going in than comming out, it's just the guys have figured out how to take a bunch of the unwanted leftover energy and transform it, again. The machines are costly. You have to have some kind of continous waste stream. I don't see it operating in your back yard anytime soon. I also imagine anything that tries to hold a 30,000 degree F. plasma won't last forever even if such plasma is in a magnetic field. It doesn't solve the ongoing CO2 problem either. Complex problems are rarely solved by one pointed solutions. Finally, it's just an example. Creativity, Cooperation, Ethical behavior are just some of the most important tools to create a sustainable future. StarTech in and of itself doesn't fall in any of those catagories. Quote Selected
Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real" Reply #29 – April 26, 2007, 07:08:03 AM I like global warming... It happens every spring. Winter sucks! Quote Selected
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