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Topic: 2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford... (Read 1939 times) previous topic - next topic

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #1 –
your subject line sickens me,,, the big 3,,,

including toyota in that statement sux
Toyota offers nothing to america except the jobs ,, which are a result of our sitting back and waiting to be taken over.
Toyota offeres nothing to our stock market as all the money you give out for one of thier cars goes directly to a foriegn country.

good job toyota
good job china
good job mexico
good job Disney and so many others owned by another country here in the US
 bring it on,, we all here are just itchin to give it all away.

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #2 –
They offer efficient reliable vehicles, face the fact that 'american' vehicles cant compete. It is only going to get worse unfortunatally.


Scott
1980 birds X 3, 1982 bird, 1984 XR7, 1988 TC

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #3 –
The problem isn't even build quality so much anymore.  It's lack of appeal AND dismal customer service.
-- 05 Mustang GT-Whipplecharged !!
--87 5.0 Trick Flow Heads & Intake - Custom Cam - Many other goodies...3100Lbs...Low12's!

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #4 –
That is true, sad aint it?

I garuntee you that if I had actually bought a new car as I was planning to this summer it would not have been an american brand, boring, dull, unmotivated, bleh. that goes for the cars, the sales people, and the showrooms ('cept the new GM dealer, had some cool early 1900's cars in the showroom)

Scott
1980 birds X 3, 1982 bird, 1984 XR7, 1988 TC

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #5 –
Exactly - Toyota isn't some big, bad wolf bent on world domination, they simply make better cars. It's a free market economy and people choose where they want to spend their money. "Buy American" is fine and well, but when you're talking about a significant investment (a poor investment, of course, but a significant one nonetheless) such as a car purchase, people want the best value for their money, and in terms of resale value the best return on their investment.

Toyota cars certainly aren't cheap, so nobody can say they're undercutting GM and Ford to get volume. Toyota simply builds what the public believes to be a better car. Whether this perception is still accurate or not is difficult to prove (Ford and GM quality have improved enormously over the past two decades but still have problems, while at the same time the asians have had a significant drop in quality), but public perception , whether justified or not, is an extremely difficult thing to change. Just ask Wendy's how much the sales of their chili bowls dropped off after the finger incident, even though it was proven a hoax. McDonald's could probably strangle the one that started the worms-in-the-Big-Mac rumours too.

Ford and GM haven't done  a whole lot to quell those opinions though - in addition to such publicized lemons as the Focus and Cavalier (neither of which is inherently bad, but not up to Civic standards), they continue to offer vehicles with dismal specifications when compared to the Asians. No matter how the car performs, if it is perceived as inferior (such as in GM's case with all the 1940's tech pushrod engines, and in Ford's case with the low horsepower figures) people will give it a pass. Ford/GM then have to drop prices and offer incentives to bribe people into the showrooms. Profits go into the toilet. The news reports that the companies are losing money. People become reluctant to get on a sinking ship. Fewer sales = even lower profits, which leads to cost cutting, which leads to bigger shiznitboxes. It's a vicious circle.
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣
 

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #6 –
Quote
Toyota isn't some big, bad wolf bent on world domination

I respectfully disagree, sir. ;)

They are hell-bent on dominating at least North America. And Europe will be next. I don't even think it's a question of being in the right place at the right time. Toyota did what Ford did with the Explorer--it's not the perfect vechicle at one thing, but does everything very well. Except that Toyota did that with virtually every vehicle they build, not just a handful like the U.S. carmakers seem to continually do. If anything, Toyota is a master of listening to the customer, and of marketing. Beyond that they are just about like everyone else in quality. Except for the solid lineup, of course. And the perceived resale value.

Fortunately the tide may be turning. Haven't seen any of the new RAV-4's out...how they could turn an absolutely stunning body style into barf is really confusing. The Camry is...different. Definitely chunkier than its predecessors. Frankly I don't see what the commotion is about. The Sequoia is about as big as one. People complained about the Expedition and Excursion...sheesh, this thing is just short of a tank in size. And now Toyota wants to take away truck sales with the redesigned T-100, which even their company officials have admitted that they went overboard with, in the size department. Because Toyota "knows" that cowboys want big trucks. Well, they do...but with a foreign nameplate? I remain highly skeptical. This is now the third version of the T-100. Think they got it right this time?

Toyota is nothing more than the car industry's version of Micro$oft: they want to be ubiquitous. I need say only one word to prove this...NASCAR. Mmm mmm, can't wait to see those Camrys running around the track, huh! And this year there have been several serious recalls that the media blatantly downplayed. Yes, the media is also in Toyota's pocket. That really pees me off because they were relentless with Ford on the igntion switch and the TFI recalls. But Toyota makes a serious suspension mistake? Noooooo, that's simply not possible! Not the perfect Toyota!

The sad thing is, I personally cannot say anything bad about any of the Toyota vehicles I've been in. They seemed to be alright. But nothing I'd write home about either. Seen better, seen worse. Ford seats are way better on my back, though. :)

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #7 –
I recently left employment at Ford in Dearborn and you'd think I'd be biased, but I'm a customer first and if Dearborn can't meet my market demands, I'll but from whoever can.

Imagine the reliability of today's new cars if Toyota and Honda never existed.  We should be grateful.  We, as the consumer, win.

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #8 –
I'd like to know what this "quality gap" is between American cars and Hondas/Toyotas? Over the past 18 years we have owned the following cars: 1977 Chevy Malibu 350, 1980 Olds 88 307, 1987 Plymouth Voyager (2.6 Mitsu engine), 1990 Honda Accord (2.2), 1993 Buick Century (3.3 still own), 1997 Dodge Caravan (3.3 still own), 1998 Honda Accord (2.3 Still own). Now we maintain our cars very well (oil cahnges every 3,000 miles, trans filter cahnges once a year, flush the radiator once a year ect) and the only cars we every had a problem with have been the Hondas and the Plymouth (Mitsu engine). All these cars were purchased new. The 90 Accord died at 78,000 miles due to electrical and tranny problems that were horrendusly expensive to fix. The 98 Accord had a bad power steering pump and a bad tranny gasket AT 30,000 MILES! It also has a constant brake squeel problem that even the dealer can't fix. I find it hard to believe that we got the only two py Hondas ever made. The Plymouths Mitsu engine was just  and it died at 90,000 miles. All the other American cars have gone 100,000+ miles with nary a problem. At this point I have much more confidence in American cars than puppiesenese ones. Also where I live American cars tend to last longer than puppiesense cars because the puppiesenese cars tend to rust out fast. Around me American cars out number puppiesenses cars 3 to 1.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Paul Flockhart;119759
The problem isn't even build quality so much anymore.  It's lack of appeal AND dismal customer service.

That's exactly why my g/f switched to Honda. Ford's customer service was horrible, almost like they didn't want her to get another lease with them... Honda bought out her lease and gave her an option to buy. She is very happy with her decision. Her mom has a Ford as well and I doubt she will buy/lease another one from them either.
2005 Subaru WRX STi|daily driver

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #10 –
i think thunderjet302 articulated the verbage i was uable to.

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #11 –
I will always own a Ford or ford subsidiary, yes that includes Mazda.

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #13 –
Quote from: xjeffs;119838
  We should be grateful.  We, as the consumer, win.


The sad thing is, most people think that.

2007's Big Three - Toyota, GM, Ford...

Reply #14 –
Quote from: stuntmannick;120091
The sad thing is, most people think that.


...because it's very true. Whether you choose to buy an import or not (and yes, it is still a choice), there is no denying that the competition provided by has made all cars better.

As for the so-called quality gap: I truly believe it has all but disappeared. The problem is that the perception of it hasn't (thanks in no small way to the media that reports every little problem with domestic cars while ignoring huge ones with imports). Only now are we starting to see import quality problems being reported - Toyota, f'rinstance, has had a huge surge in quality problems, and lemonade.com is full of stories from pissed off Honda owners.

Regardless of whether the quality gap still exists, though, perception of it still does. It's largely just a perception that just won't die, but it's being fanned by what I call the technology gap. People confuse technology with quality. For example, a Crown Vic is probably one of the toughest, most reliable vehicles available at any price (hence their popularity with police and taxi fleets), but it is old technology. A Camry, on the other hand, is all shiny and new with its variable valve timing, DOHC V6 that easily walks all over the larger Ford V8, unibody construction, front wheel drive, 25-speed tranny (or whatever ridiculous number they actually are) and other "modern" necessities. The Crown Vic will last ten times longer and will soldier along with nary a problem until it's a $150 derby car, but because it's a dinosaur people thing it lacks quality.


Sad, I know, but as long as the masses think something, true or not, they will choose based on their beliefs.
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣