what engine?!?!?! October 24, 2006, 12:34:19 AM well, im thinking about saving money up and buying a 99 DOC 4.6 cobra engine with a 6 speed. i have put alot of thought into it and they make more power. heads cost about the same. and cams cost a little more, and other things that add HP and TQ cost a little more, but they can produce alot better horsepower. Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #1 – October 24, 2006, 08:44:31 AM Talk to Shame 302. He had a lot of parts for this exact swap and has decided to do something else and has posted most for sale. Shoot him a PM.As far as producing a LOT more horsepower and torque......well, if you got the cash you can make a 5.0 scream. A friend has a 306 equipped '90 Mustang with a C4. It's a roller cam and spins to a 7500 RPM redline and has dynoed at 550+ The block is a stocker from a '91 Town Car Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #2 – October 24, 2006, 10:19:11 AM Wait, you mean the DOG of a 99 Cobra engine that led to THE most widely published recall in history? The one that meant that NO 2000 Cobra's got built? The one that 2-valve GT's were whooping on dead stock? THAT 99 Cobra motor? Because if you think you'll ever get any kind of REAL power out of that boat anchor I have a coupla bridges to sell you. Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #3 – October 24, 2006, 12:08:32 PM I think the '03 Cobra is the most widely sought-after. Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #4 – October 24, 2006, 04:49:14 PM QuoteWait, you mean the DOG of a 99 Cobra engine that led to THE most widely published recall in history? The one that meant that NO 2000 Cobra's got built? The one that 2-valve GT's were whooping on dead stock? THAT 99 Cobra motor? Because if you think you'll ever get any kind of REAL power out of that boat anchor I have a coupla bridges to sell you.haha....obviously not a fan of the modulars. anyway..i was going to go with an 03-04 cobra engine but didnt care for the cast iron block. awesome engine otherwise. heads and cams dont cost a little more, they cost ALOT more. on the very cheep side, reground cams are going to be around 700 bucks (remember, theres 4 of them). now consider the uber expensive valve train. springs are a good 300....the fr500 heads are like 800 each un assembled, the fr 500 cams are around 14-1600 but come with a decent set of springs. the problem with the 99s were in the intake. the recall was for a fix extrude honing of the intake and got a better tune and i ~think exhaust. they were revised in 00' even though they didnt produce the car. these were the last of the teksid (italian) block. fords mistake was rateing them for 320. they crank out around 300. mine is a 00" cobra engine and tune. as for being a pig, i ran a 13.4 @106 with it and i have 327 gears. the car weights about what a tbird does, right around 3500-3600 bls i belive. the teksid block can be found in cobras 96-01. the 01s are a mix of the left over teksids and fords version the wap block (their casting made in windsor aluminum plant). honestly, unless you have a hard on for the teksid block (one of the toughest blocks ever) id look for a mach1 engine. basically, its an 99-01 cobra engine with the 03 heads. if you are looking to go with boost, do yourself a fave and get the 03-04. im considering a procharger but 400 rwhp-450 rwhp, a safe tune and about 8 lbs of boost are all thats considered safe for the rods and pistons they stuck in ALL of the NA modulars. even then it still may be a ticking time bomb. the earlier engines, 96-98 aend bad but you are stuck with that intake and they run imrc. those can be deleated though. also, be carefull what 6 speed you get. the cobras T56 had a 266 1st gear wich is realy tall/long for a NA DOHC 4.6. these engines dont make alot of torque below 3 grand. the 00" cobra R T56 would be the way to go, its got the 295 1st. both of these trannys have the same OD as the 5 speeds. the only tranny that has the "double overdrive 6th) is the viper with a .50. some of the vettes may have it as well. i bailed on my project because i found a smoking deal on the mustang and just couldnt pass it up. it is so much like what i planned for the tbird it was rediculous. the suspension, brakes, the 4 valve modular the skaker etc....i couldnt justify keeping the tbird and having basically 2 of the same car. not to mention the money i had wrapped up into its parts vs how much more i needed to finnish it. that and the wife wouldnt let me have 2 toy cars. the stang was way too good of a value to pass up. i still realy wish i could have built it, i was so close. i realy, realy miss the tbird and regret selling it. i have the k member your going to want to use on ebay right now, realy cheep. http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZshame302 if you want to do the swap on the cheep, do what i did and get a 97-98 lincoln mark viii engine. they can be had cheep so it doesnt hurt as much initially, and if the swap turns out to be a disaster your not 3-6k into an engine. HP differance isnt all that much but deffinetly there. 290 crank hp for that engine. i was going to just do a imrc delete on it, get it running good and call it good till i had a better engine option available. you would need a 6 bolt flywheel to make that work with a manual tranny. the later GTs had those for use with an 11" clutch. you will have to decide on brakes as well too. its either hydrobbost conversion or manual brakes. its deffinetly a very worth while swap. but its a very involved one. ive only seen it done in a fox tbird once. there is a guy on cardomain that has one sort of started as well. its been done many times in fox stangs so their is alot of info out there. let me know if i can help with anything. just say no to pushrods...lolanyway, i know im kind of all over the place with this post, i usually ramble on with this topic...lol Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #5 – October 24, 2006, 05:19:48 PM I beat up on a 99 cobra with a very mildly modded 2.3L. Take that as you will. Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #6 – October 24, 2006, 05:38:40 PM yeah, the 99s are low 14s, high 13s and trap around 100-101 ish. my car soesnt feel as fast as it is because of how smoth it is and the lack of low end torque. it doesnt realy pull hard till it hits about 3500 rpms and pulls hard to 7k. they are a real top end engine. even the torque curve in mine feels like its got a tiny turbo on it. i drove an 01 cobra with a p1sc and it pulled so much like a turbo 2.3 it wasnt even funny, just alot faster....ive pulled on a ws6 (ram air firebird) with a mild cam till about 90ish. he did catch me at about 110. shawn,....ill race ya its all about prefferance. the 302 is a super great engine. it doesnt realy do anything for me though, not like the modulars do. im not going to run around saying they are better. the winsor 302 will be around forever and has huge aftermarket support. the parts arent available for the 4.6 dohc like the 302. the 4.6 dohc has its issues as well. most of them have a cooling problem in the drivers side head. it caused the "tick" you hear about alot. the powder metal can gear and oil pump gear are serious weak points in these engines. on the other hand, 320 hp out of 281 cubes is bretty darned good for a stocker. they LOVE boost and NOS not considering the powder rods and pistons. me, id take a teksid blocked 4.6 dohc with forged inturnals over any 302, any day. hopefully, mine will be forged within the next 2 years to pave the way for either a twin turbo setup or big centrifugal blower.... Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #7 – October 24, 2006, 09:01:27 PM well, i will take the 2000 then. those 03-04 engines cost alot more!!!i just also like the sound that the 4.6 has when you mash on it. i got to drive a 1997 cobra, and a just a 2004 GT with bolt on's, and i loved the way they sounded Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #8 – October 24, 2006, 10:18:17 PM ypu are right, nothing sounds quite as shagy as the 4 valve screaming its way to redline... the 00' cobra drivetrain was only available through FRPP and its dealers. it came as a very complete kit. it ran on average from 6-6800. this is the kit that is in my car:http://www.musclemotors.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=968there is nothing wrong with a 99'. if the intake has a blue dot on it than it had the fix done to it. you should be able to find a 99 or 01 cobra engine pretty easily. id realy look for a mach 1 engine. same hand built engine as the NA cobra, accept it has better heads (the 03-04 heads that the 03-04 cobras and merauders have). the wap block os still good for over 5-600 HP. it has the same weak pistons and rods that all the 4.6 modular NA engines have. even a 96-98 cobra engine would be alright. you could use the imrc setup with the ccrm but its "more involved" id just delete the imrc plates and throw a little more gear at it. hell, like i said, the mark viii engine is a decent alturnative. i got mine for 600 bucks out of a 98 lsc with 30k miles on it. i couldnt find a decent cobra engine locally at the time that didnt either have a story to it or was reasonably priced. i was a hair away from picking up an 04 mach 1 engine for 3500 but found the mark viii engine at the same time locally. it seemed like the more logical thing to do. after all, going from the suckpump 155 hp 5.0 to a nice high reving 290+ hp modular would have been quite an improvement. here is a quick pic of the setup in my cah Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #9 – October 25, 2006, 11:03:55 PM Cams cost a little more? haha.... Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #10 – October 26, 2006, 09:02:04 PM that is one pretty set up you have there shame302!!how much tourque and hp does the mark viii have? Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #12 – October 26, 2006, 09:38:01 PM that is one pretty set up you have there shame302.how much hp and tq does the viii have? Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #13 – October 26, 2006, 09:56:01 PM the mark viii engine you are going to want to look at is the 97-98. they are 4 alve dohc engines that put out 290 hp. im not sure what the TQ was on those. these engines were basically 96-98 cobra engines with a different intake and crank. other than that, they are mostely the same. these run imrcs as well, but they could be deleted easilly. a 96-98 cobra intake will fit it. the earlier mark viiis had a funky intake that took air in toward the firewall. the mark viii was the first ford to get the 4.6 dhoc engines, and some say they were the test bed for the cobra engine program, hence the cobra getting the engine later in 96. all of the mark viiis and all cobras from 96-99 have the teksid block. all of the mark viiis, automatic mach 1s, and merauders have cast, 6 bolt cranks like the mustang gt. all of the cobras and 5 speed mach 1s have the forged steel 8 bolt crank.bottom line on the mark viii engine, it can be had for hundreds of dollars instead of thousands like a cobra or mach 1 engine. thats why i bought one for the tbird. i figured i could afford to spit a few of them out before having a forged teksid SB built up. its a decent compramise for getting the project started anyway. obviously the cobra and mach 1 engines are better, but they are expensive up front and still suffer the same limitations on the pistons and rods. an important detail to note, these engines are realy big up top. the 4 walve heads are huge. you will have to decide weather or not you want to continue to run power assist brakes or not. if you want them, than you will need to convert your brake setup to hydroboost. i had all the stuff here but sold it a few weeks ago. its either that, or fully manual brakes. not much fun, and a bad idea on the street. heres a pic to show how much space they take up. itl look the same pretty much in a fox. note the lack of a vac. booster. and one of the engine ready to go in with the ceramic headers Quote Selected
what engine?!?!?! Reply #14 – October 26, 2006, 10:03:52 PM The marks had 290 hp and tq and were 4v....and im a little late on that reply Quote Selected
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