I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice?

Topic: I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice? (Read 2216 times) previous topic - next topic

I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice?

September 10, 2006, 11:39:14 AM

Hello all,

Well, ok, this is my first post here, and I've done a bit of searching, but wanted some opinions/thoughs for the specifics that I'm thinking of.

I have a 1988 T-bird Sport, 105K miles, runs great, 100% stock, etc., and I have to commute with it. Unfortunately, my commute is nearly 80 miles each way. Fortunately, I don't have to do it every day.

I mention that because, while I like a bit of rumble in my exhaust, and for local driving, extra-deep sounding, not overly loud rumble in my rotting lers sounds nice, but when maintaining 75MPH for 40 minutes, it actually gets annoying. So, I'd like things to be fairly quiet.

Also, I kina like the way there's gobs of torque with the S.O. 5.0 V8 way down low in the RPM band. It's nice to be ambling along in 4th gear at say 1200 RPM, feather the gas, and see the car accelerate without downshifting, and without really any struggle.

Ok, so here's what I've read about how the stock exhaust configurations affect power:

Single:
150 hp @ 3400 RPM (some sources say @ 3200?)
270 ft-lbs @ 2000 RPM

Faux-dual (the stock 2 small cats into 1 big cat into 2 lers and tailpipes):
155 hp @ 3400 RPM
265 ft-lbs @ 2200 RPM

True dual (as found in the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis)
160 hp @ 3400 RPM
280 ft-lbs @ 2200 RPM

Well, ok, I know you probably don't feel 5 or 10 hp or ft-lbs that much, but I'm figuring 5 here, 10 there, 5 somewhere else, etc., and it adds up.

Now, if I go duals, or other power mods that increase power and torque, I'd like to keep it such that, even if the point of peak torque and/or moves up in the RPM band, I don't want any part of the power curve to dip below what I had stock. I wanna keep every last little bit of bottom end.

But, I've got a few questions:
1) The Crown Vic/Grand Marquis dual exhaust setup, does that actually use the H.O. 5.0's exhaust manifolds, or the stock S.O. manifolds?

2) If I do a true dual setup with, say, Mustang or LSC manifolds and H-pipe, how will it affect power/torque curves at the bottom end?

3) Also, if I do Mustang/LSC manifolds and H-pipe, but use stock quiet-type lers from the T-bird, how will it affect noise? (I'm told some of the sound is determined by lers, and some by the manifolds/headers, and as mentioned before, I'd like to increase flow, but keep things fairly quiet, at least on the inside of the car).

4) Is there a true-dual H-pipe available for the Fox-body T-bird/Cougar that works with the standard exhaust manifolds, by any chance?

5) Is it true that the LSC or Mustang H-pipe won't properly reach and bolt up to the S.O. manifolds? Consequently, does that mean as well that I can't put H.O. manifolds on and have it properly hook up to the Fox T-bird's 2-into-1 catalyst pipes (I ask in case I wind up in a situation where I can or have to do my mods piecemeal).

I guess that about covers my questions, although I've got a sneaking suspicion that there's one or two important things I forgot to ask.

Ah, yes, I assume all the T-bird Sport models had console shift and not column, but in case they didn't all come that way, well, mine did.

Oh, and I should mention that I'm a pretty cheap SOB, and probably that I'll have to get the car inspected by the end of the month. Hopefully the inspectors don't notice (sounds more like aftermarket lers than an exhaust leak, and there's no problem one can see with casual observation), but if they do, I think I get an extra 45 days after that to fix it.

I should probably also mention that I've only removed exhaust manifolds from a car *once* and that was on a 1970 Chrysler, so if there's any gotchas or other need-to-know info when doing exhaust specifically on a Windsor V8 or specifically on a Fox-body, please let me know.

Thanks in advance everyone.

I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice?

Reply #1 – September 10, 2006, 05:48:27 PM

"I mention that because, while I like a bit of rumble in my exhaust, and for local driving, extra-deep sounding, not overly loud rumble in my rotting lers sounds nice, but when maintaining 75MPH for 40 minutes, it actually gets annoying. So, I'd like things to be fairly quiet."

Then stick with stock lers. Or maybe certain aftermarket ones.

"Now, if I go duals, or other power mods that increase power and torque, I'd like to keep it such that, even if the point of peak torque and/or moves up in the RPM band, I don't want any part of the power curve to dip below what I had stock. I wanna keep every last little bit of bottom end."
You will lose alittle bottom end.

"1) The Crown Vic/Grand Marquis dual exhaust setup, does that actually use the H.O. 5.0's exhaust manifolds, or the stock S.O. manifolds?"
Not sure, but the stock cv/gm didnt have duel's unless they were police interceptors until after 91 when they ditched the 5.0.

"2) If I do a true dual setup with, say, Mustang or LSC manifolds and H-pipe, how will it affect power/torque curves at the bottom end?"
You will lose alittle bottom end. Supposedly its not much, but I have no personal experiance. Sorry.

"3) Also, if I do Mustang/LSC manifolds and H-pipe, but use stock quiet-type lers from the T-bird, how will it affect noise? (I'm told some of the sound is determined by lers, and some by the manifolds/headers, and as mentioned before, I'd like to increase flow, but keep things fairly quiet, at least on the inside of the car)."
It depends on the lers if it will be alot or alittle louder. The flow also goes along with how loud it will be.

"4) Is there a true-dual H-pipe available for the Fox-body T-bird/Cougar that works with the standard exhaust manifolds, by any chance?"
No, the mustang h-pipe is the best bet with shorty headers. You could always get the h-pipe custom made at a shop.

5) "Is it true that the LSC or Mustang H-pipe won't properly reach and bolt up to the S.O. manifolds? Consequently, does that mean as well that I can't put H.O. manifolds on and have it properly hook up to the Fox T-bird's 2-into-1 catalyst pipes (I ask in case I wind up in a situation where I can or have to do my mods piecemeal)."
S.O. manifolds are shorter then the H.O's. You may be able to bolt it up, but the seal will not be perfect. You could maybe get it to work, but it will prolly be more trouble then its worth.

"I guess that about covers my questions, although I've got a sneaking suspicion that there's one or two important things I forgot to ask.

Ah, yes, I assume all the T-bird Sport models had console shift and not column, but in case they didn't all come that way, well, mine did.

Oh, and I should mention that I'm a pretty cheap SOB, and probably that I'll have to get the car inspected by the end of the month. Hopefully the inspectors don't notice (sounds more like aftermarket lers than an exhaust leak, and there's no problem one can see with casual observation), but if they do, I think I get an extra 45 days after that to fix it.

I should probably also mention that I've only removed exhaust manifolds from a car *once* and that was on a 1970 Chrysler, so if there's any gotchas or other need-to-know info when doing exhaust specifically on a Windsor V8 or specifically on a Fox-body, please let me know."
It is covered really well in the coolcats.net website under tech and duals. It will be the same if not easier then removing the manifolds off of just about any car. The only diffrence is the 5.0 has alot more room to work then alot of other cars. Its pretty much just a bolt in procedure. So really, all you gotta do is get the h-pipe and put it all together.

Thanks in advance everyone."

I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice?

Reply #2 – September 10, 2006, 07:46:33 PM

Run cheap turbo lers if you want a bit of a rumble but not too loud.

I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice?

Reply #3 – September 10, 2006, 09:14:55 PM

Quote from: Haystack;103381

Then stick with stock lers. Or maybe certain aftermarket ones.

Aside from stock, are there any aftermarkets that you'd recommend to fit my needs?

Quote from: Haystack;103381

Not sure, but the stock cv/gm didnt have duel's unless they were police interceptors until after 91 when they ditched the 5.0.

Are you sure? And I ask this *very* hesitantly given the number of posts you've made and the cars you have, versus that for myself.

The reason I thought/assumed that you could order duals on those cars from the factory is because just about any exhaust listing I'd seen showed separate single and dual exhaust listings for those cars (see for example this), although it only differs from the police 351 version by the hangers at the tailpipes. Or maybe the ler companies were just clever enough to realize there'd be a market for this and producing all the same parts wouldn't cost 'em anything extra.

Quote from: Haystack;103381

It is covered really well in the coolcats.net website under tech and duals. It will be the same if not easier then removing the manifolds off of just about any car. The only diffrence is the 5.0 has alot more room to work then alot of other cars. Its pretty much just a bolt in procedure. So really, all you gotta do is get the h-pipe and put it all together.

Cool, sounds relatively easy, then. The Chrysler, as I recall, had the caveat that you had to use the coolant drains in the block to get all the antifreeze out. Turns out that removing some of the studs/bolts holding the manifolds on caused coolant to come out, but it's been about 8 years since I did it.

I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice?

Reply #4 – September 11, 2006, 05:33:25 PM

o.K.,go to E-bay now.There are a few sets of factory Mustang headers for $10.00 up to $20.00 a set.Then,get an H or X pipe.Mine was $126.00 brand new from Pypes.I'm using Warlock lers with the built in cut outs.They are quieter than most lers (aftermarket),and have a nice tone to them that isn't bothersome.if you want to run strong,pull the plugs and you have free flow exhaust for racing.They don't cost a fortune.Connect everything to your tail pipes and call it good.The headers would be a great addition to your car.Think about it.The investment is super cheap,and,easy to do.

I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice?

Reply #5 – September 11, 2006, 06:37:31 PM

Quote from: Haystack;103381

Not sure, but the stock cv/gm didnt have duel's unless they were police interceptors until after 91 when they ditched the 5.0.

It was the Lincoln Town Cars that got factory duals on the 5.0, I think.

I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice?

Reply #6 – September 11, 2006, 09:40:12 PM

Actually, how loud/quiet is the interior of the typical fox T-bird/Cougar when equipped with a stock Mustang type exhaust system, including stock type lers from the H.O. motor?

I realize that part of the reason the sound may be so grating to me is that the rot is more in the front of the lers, meaning the source of the noise is more or less under the passenger footwell or thereabouts.

In fact, the strange thing is that it's the front-panel of the lers that's the problem. The pipes still go into the lers, but rather than being attached, it's like 2-inch pipes loosely going into a 3-inch hole.

Thanks for the tip on the ebay search, I may just get a set of those and start playing with 'em.

I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice?

Reply #7 – September 11, 2006, 11:30:57 PM

Dynomax Super Turbo lers should be on your list of lers to consider, they flow better than stock but not as load as an all out performance ler. Do get the HO headers and your choice of H or X pipe. I'm running an LSC H-pipe with the above and it replaced its Crown Vic sound with a decent rumble/burble that could be louder on cruise nites but doesn't drive me deaf on the highway. It got sweeter once I changed to an HO cam.

I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice?

Reply #8 – September 12, 2006, 02:46:33 PM

Is there much difference between the stock Mustang H-pipe and the stock LSC H-pipe? Walker's catalog seems to have different part numbers for them (50501 versus 50500 for the LSC and Mustang respectively. While the pics look different, since they're both Fox bodies, why would it be any different?), but I figure they should both fit any Fox vehicle with the H.O. manifolds/headers, shouldn't they?

EDIT: The article at coolcats.net isn't quite clear on a particular issue. I know most aftermarket headers don't have the provision for the O2 sensor, and that you need the length of the wires extended because the O2 sensor bung is in the H or X pipe, but what about with a stock H.O. system? Does the O2 sensor go into the manifold/header, or the H-pipe?

Thanks again everyone for tolerating the barrage of "newbie to the 5.0" questions.

I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice?

Reply #9 – September 25, 2006, 07:38:20 PM

Well, at least I've got a reprieve from my time crunch.

Took the T-bird to inspection today... and I guess they must've just assumed I had some sort of performance lers (admittedly it *does* sound like that, and not like a typical exhaust leak), but I passed. Woohoo!

Good for 2 more years, though I'm planning on changing the exhaust system long before that (should have a set of used 5.0 Mustang factory headers bought soon). Haven't figured out exactly what to do yet, though I'm thinking Mark VII H-pipe combined with stock T-bird lers and stock T-bird tailpipes (I'm a cheap SOB, I might try to reuse the ones I've got!).

Anyhoo, here's a look at the inlet-side of my lers, just for those who're curious as to what I got away with... hint: those dark circles under the inlet pipes are NOT shadows...

That said, anyone know what's up with the 3-catalyst system that the quasi-dual exhaust system uses? Could the third one be eliminated and still pass a New Jersey sniffer test? If it could, I'd be more than happy just cutting the Y before it joins, and running pipes from the front-cats to the lers.

I'll be needing to do my exhaust system, with some caveats. Advice?

Reply #10 – September 26, 2006, 08:42:27 AM

Quote

Haven't figured out exactly what to do yet, though I'm thinking Mark VII H-pipe combined with stock T-bird lers and stock T-bird tailpipes (I'm a cheap SOB, I might try to reuse the ones I've got!).

That's pretty much what I've got, except for a Walker 2-cat Mustang H-pipe. I also used the stock Tbird s & pipes (mainly because they already fit the back half of the car). Not particularly pleased with the sound... I get a resonating "boom" inside the car, but more of a "ppfffttt" out the tailpipes, probably because the parts weren't designed and "tuned" to work together. The TC s are no better, just a different size inlet/outlet on the same ler body. :(