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Paint Company

Reply #15 –
I don't know much about painting either, but if you think about it, why can't a base/single stage paint be as durable as clear? With the single stage, you just need the surface to maintain a good finish. With clear, you need the surface of the clear, and all of its depth, to remain intact to look good and not become yellow. With clearcoat, people cut and buff the surface to get rid of damaged layers. With single stage, you can do the same.

Clearcoat is easier to touch up if defects or damage don't go all the way through to the base coat. With a single stage, you have to deal with color matching in order to touch things up. Clear also provides decent gloss and depth, which was lost as paints were required to change some 40 years ago.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Paint Company

Reply #16 –
An SSU by itself actually can be as durable, if not more, and many people choose to not clearcoat over SSU's on their vehicles. The point of applying clearcoat over an SSU is for the added UV protection, as well as the extra Gloss and Depth that comes from the clear. Also of course as everyone knows, maintenance and touch-up is much easier with a clearcoated vehicle. Road Tar/Bugs/etc will be much easier to clean off, as they can't stick anywhere near as steadfast to the clear.

Paint Company

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Big B;410728
An SSU by itself actually can be as durable, if not more, and many people choose to not clearcoat over SSU's on their vehicles. The point of applying clearcoat over an SSU is for the added UV protection, as well as the extra Gloss and Depth that comes from the clear. Also of course as everyone knows, maintenance and touch-up is much easier with a clearcoated vehicle. Road Tar/Bugs/etc will be much easier to clean off, as they can't stick anywhere near as steadfast to the clear.

Why couldn't the base coat have the same properties as the clear? If it's % of volume, then fine, but I don't see how clear would protect any better. The clear would get the abuse rather than the base color, and both would need maintenance as it ages.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Paint Company

Reply #18 –
The Clear coat is much harder and durable. No high end car comes single stage. Toyota is known for bad paint on some models. I am told that whites and blacks are single stage on some models. That is why they look so py after a couple of years down the road.
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

Paint Company

Reply #19 –
If you go with martin senour, don't let a sales rep get you to buy a clear called ipc15. Its good stuff for touchups, but the 15 is there for a reason. 15 minute dry time sandable in 20. Its pretty py for overalls. But their system is dirt easy to use.

Paint Company

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Seek;410742
Why couldn't the base coat have the same properties as the clear? If it's % of volume, then fine, but I don't see how clear would protect any better. The clear would get the abuse rather than the base color, and both would need maintenance as it ages.

A good Clearcoat has far more UV resistance. Do some quick research, you will see the same things I have been telling you.

Paint Company

Reply #21 –
Quote from: TOM Renzo;410755
The Clear coat is much harder and durable. No high end car comes single stage. Toyota is known for bad paint on some models. I am told that whites and blacks are single stage on some models. That is why they look so py after a couple of years down the road.

Quote from: Big B;410764
A good Clearcoat has far more UV resistance. Do some quick research, you will see the same things I have been telling you.

Why can't a single stage be formulated to be as durable? The clear and base must have similar properties for one to stick to another I just don't understand why the single stage couldn't be the same, but with color added in. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some product lines of single stage paint that are the same as clear in all aspects excluding transparency.

I'm not looking for he said/she said. I'm curious about the actual composition and statistics that show the differences, and why they are different. Why couldn't a single stage have the same UV resistance? My only uneducated guess is that since the clear is, well, clear, it allows the light to penetrate deeper to distribute the damage.  With a single stage paint, the surface is opaque and would take on most of the sun's rays.

Compositions and scientific data is not something that quick research would turn up.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Paint Company

Reply #22 –
Well, your uneducated guess is pretty far off base, no one should fault you for ignorance though, we all had to learn to some point. These are FACTS, not he/she said bs..., but what do I know, I just do this everyday for a living, and have 100's of satisfied local customers who will only bring their rides to me for body/paint work.

You can find all the answers you seek with 5mins of searching on google. I don't have the time to spoonfeed them to you right now.

Paint Company

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Big B;410777
Well, your uneducated guess is pretty far off base, no one should fault you for ignorance though, we all had to learn to some point. These are FACTS, not he/she said bs..., but what do I know, I just do this everyday for a living, and have 100's of satisfied local customers who will only bring their rides to me for body/paint work.

You can find all the answers you seek with 5mins of searching on google. I don't have the time to spoonfeed them to you right now.

What I've got from Google searching is:

- Clearcoat takes on the UV rays rather than the color base coat, preventing the base color from changing (both can be protected and buffed to keep in like-new condition)
- Single stage works fine if you buff it out as often as people should do the same on clearcoat
- Base/clear provides more depth before a scratches reaches the base coat. I'm not sure how this would be different versus spraying the same amount of paint/layers, but all in single stage vs base/clear.
- A car with single stage and a car with base/clear, left out in the sun for years, will both have their topmost paint layers broken down by UV damage. Both may require taking it completely down and repainting.
- Single stage urethane is as durable as a urethane clear
- Some say that people with lower experience should shoot with single stage, while others recommend the same people shoot with base/clear.

I was unable to find a forum dedicated to automotive painting that has a user base full of people with OCD that I could get technical information and actual tests from. I would hope for something similar to bobistheoilguy, but for automotive painting. Any ideas? The closest I got was:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aautogeekonline.net+single+stage+durability
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aautobody101.com+durability+single+stage
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acustompaintforum.com+durability+single+stage

People rave about single stage paints over on autobody101, so again, I don't see how one has any actual benefit over the other. The clear will just retain somewhat of a gloss with neglect while single stage will dull a bit more. Both look excellent with proper maintenance or a cut and buff.
1988 Thunderbird Sport
 

Paint Company

Reply #24 –
From a protection stand point alone the b/c and s/s urethanes are not much different. The benefits of base coats are the ability to spray high metallic paints with much better flake control and for the use of high pearl contents. Some b/c colors are not even available to spray as a s/s. It is also much easier to blend base coats for color match purposes on repairs. When we replace a door we always blend the paint into the frt fender and rear door or quarter panel. The base can be sprayed part way into the panels and tapered off and then the panels are completely clear coated. Any shop that talks about a perfect color match is using this process. When you blend a s/s you are forced to paint part of the panel and buff out the blended area, this causes the blend area to have an insufficient film build and will not hold up over time.

I would not use a s/s on a customers car unless asked to do so, and could not talk them out of it. I would also never put clear over a s/s, not saying that you can't. In the dupont line s/s urethanes cost more than the base coat of the same color, then to apply clear coat over it  not only makes it cost more, it creates a very high film thickness. While this may add a "depth" appearance, there is a line between having enough film thickness and too much. If you are building a show queen that won't ever see a rock chip it doesn't much matter how much paint you pile on. Get some rocks thrown at that paint job and you will see one down side to all of that film thickness. It not only chips easier, they are much deeper.