Evtm

Topic: Evtm (Read 2870 times) previous topic - next topic

Reply #15 – May 16, 2009, 08:27:01 PM

I think what he is saying is that he felt he was playing by the rules set by Ford upon contacting them (changing the pages, etc...). But when someone threatened to report it he felt safer taking it down that risking it. Especially when "permission" from one person at Ford could be meaningless to the next person at Ford. Long story short, it may not have been as cut and dry as having or not having permission...... ?

Evtm

Reply #16 – May 17, 2009, 12:44:35 AM

I remember alot of talk on the old board about posting the EVMT. Alot of people said it was illegal, and because of this, very little if any of it was ever posted on the old board. Scott is a good guy, I have talked to him once or twice on yahoo messenger, and alot on the old board. He is generally trying to help people. I just don't want this to get blown up to the point that it did with bird351. Were all friends here. If you have a problem with the mods, I personally would post up something in the site suggestions. I have never had a problem with the rules, and I don't think I have ever had a thread or post deleted by them.

But at the same time, if it is an issue, I think the whole board should have a say in it. I also would like to see what the mods say in this situation. They have made this board to help us, and because they like these cars. Everything they do is to try to make it better as whole for everyone. I think the political parts do ruin boards. I also think overall the mods do alot to make it run smoothly. As long as nobody start pointing fingers and everyone is working twoards the same overall goal, I see no reason why this couldn't remain civil.

Evtm

Reply #17 – May 17, 2009, 11:11:37 AM

The only issue is the fact that someone got upset because their thread got shut down because it was against the rules. Threads get locked/moved/whatever else all the time.

Quote

But when someone threatened to report it he felt safer taking it down that risking it.

Why post to begin with then? FWIW no one here has ever posted pages from the EVTM in a manner to gain profit and no one here has ever wrongfully claimed that the EVTM was their brainchild so I don't really see what the issue is. For more info on that see here:

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html#permission
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

As far as this supposed "mystery person" ---Sure would be nice to hear their side of the story seeing as he at the very least knows the person who called Scott and could possibly be a member himself -- if the story has validity, that is.....

I know someone DID post this question on this site to Scott:

Quote

Forgive me for asking a dumb question... but...
Isn't posting those pictures a violation of some copyright law?
I have a collection of service literature that I'd love to share (everything from the Engines & Emissions vol H to the powertrain and body/electical). I only didn't because I was afriad of violating some law.
If I'm mistaken I could scan all my literature and make it available in PDF.
I don't think I could because of copyrights, but... if someone does require the info, I'd only be too happy to share it.
Not to rain on anybody's parade, but the question of legalities is always an important one.

Scott's reply was as follows:

Quote

contacted ford (back when one was able to contact ford) and they said per my email i still have " as long as the original drawing is modified, and not a direct scan, it can be distributed.
No one to date has noticed my modification to each and every page.

If you dont like it,, tell the mods to delete the thread. Im just spreading the wealth for those who cant afford an EVTM.

From the context in the thread from which that quote was taken; it is safe to say the last sentence was in jest and nothing more.

And finally:

Quote

i dont know what you talking about, the wiring diagrams have always been hosted outside of this forum.

photobucket

Quote

sorry bout the evtm, but keep in mind,, the wording i used was sort of a message in a bottle for that no one outside of this forum would understand when visited. I thought everyone knew to just search jcassity at photobucket. its still there guys,, gezz.

Considering that the account is set to private, it would be quite difficult....

Evtm

Reply #18 – May 17, 2009, 03:41:55 PM

According to the guys over on the Antique Radio Board, any posting of a copyrighted work without permission is illegal, period... This means a written statement from the owner of the copyright...

We often supply one another with radio schematics and technical manuals, so have to be careful of when they were produced, cause some are still copyrighted(anything from '64 on, in our case, apparently they were negligent in renewing the earlier copyrights, so those have lapsed into public domain)... We can't get that approval, as the company that produced them is still in business to sell...

Evtm

Reply #19 – May 17, 2009, 04:14:40 PM

...

Quote

The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author's observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”

Copyright protects the particular way an author has expressed himself; it does not extend to any ideas, systems, or factual information conveyed in the work.

Evtm

Reply #20 – May 17, 2009, 10:19:43 PM

I am working hard to get the better copies up to photo bucket. The "replicas" are still there.

I wanted to condense things to one post / one thread anyway but find the whole threads are gone. Im not a mod so i cant kill whole threads.

like i said, i can start a new thread so it points outside of here because i dont want to bring trouble to this sites owner.

I only stanched this stuff out about 3 or 4 weeks ago. I think by next weekend it will be back up. I am still struggling with how to deal with the "txt" part of the diy link.

I finally understand what the problem is with people ,,, and my saying to just search. The means in which the search must be done has to be in this format. username_bucket

sorry everyone:bowdown:
I just figured everyone knew that already, im not as puter literate as most of you.

just confirmed with booksix and a couple others.

so like i said, its still there.

Evtm

Reply #21 – May 17, 2009, 10:23:41 PM

tom
I was on nostalgia air today and thougt about what you mentioned above.

Evtm

Reply #22 – June 16, 2009, 01:33:25 AM

Its nice to finally get around to things ,,,but yes there has been a long history of preparations to make the EVTM available. It was was questioned even if i had contacted ford or not. Im not briniging the member into this who jerked my chain. Its not worth it. WHat is worth it is for people to have a little patience and please just chill. I can post up the old stuff just as easy but hey, why not purdy it up. I ran into issues with hyperlinks night before last and had to learn what one was and even if i wanted one. I was trying to allow your mouse to hover over a key word that poped up a pic of the object being discussed and am having trouble. I dont have any help.

so ,, there you have it people ,, yes I did call ford. Yes i am really good about getting phone numbers, and yes, there were many options and things discussed. just like there was a member who jerked me on having this stuff up. Seems to be a passer by cause the name hasnt signed on for ,, oh,, a little while.

various emails from my archive.

**************************************************
Jim
By the way,,, i was only able to provide you pics of the manual in .jpg form.

scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Kuntz, James (J.)
To: revisedelf@brier.net
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 5:06 PM
Subject: RE: EVTM manual for the 1987 merc Cougar and Thunderbird

Hi James:

My name is Jim Kuntz and I handle the licensing of Ford technical information. In order to assist you I need some additional information.

Does this manual, FPS-12116-87, contain information on all Ford passenger cars of just Thunderbird and Cougar?
Please send a PDF file of the front and back covers and the inside facing page.
The full name and business address of the potential licensee

The name, phone number and Fax number of the contact person

The e-mail address of the contact person

Is this the potential licensee an individual or corporation and state of incorporation if applicable

The planed wholesale/ retail price of the product.

The estimated annual sales volume by year for the first five years.

Product definition: Need a short concise description of the product as it would appear in the contract. (Is it the whole publication or excerpts. Format, etc.)

Regards,

Jim Kuntz
The Beanstalk Group
19540 Allen Rd.
Melvindale, MI 48122
Ph: 313.248.5736
Fax: 313.248.6359

-----Original Message-----
From: James cassity [mailto:revisedelf@brier.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 11:35 AM
To: Nens, John (J.J.)
Subject: EVTM manual for the 1987 merc Cougar and Thunderbird

Greetings
I was directed to contact you by this means via your 1 800 392 3673 CSR line. I am writing to obtain permission to circulate copies of the following manual in electronic form and to be posted on our web site to be used as a resource to help others troubleshoot.

Manual name and number:
1987 T-BIRD/COUGAR Electrical & Vacuum Trouble-Shooting Manual
FPS-12116-87
LITHO IN U.S.A.
Aug 1986

I and several thousand others are very passionate about these cars that range within the years 1983-1988 and have a need to share our manual information with others who own these fox body cars. Many owners of the mid 80's cougar and tbird have not been lucky enough to have the factory OEM shop manuals for troubleshooting reasons. Having said this, I would like to become aware of the process and move forward on permission to share this information on a car that we all feel is worth saving.

I can be contacted at 304 772 4082.

There is no intent on circulating this manual for monetary gain or other dishonest reasons. Our only promise to our members it to share everything we know about these fine cars from its history to general and detailed maintenance.

It is my intention to obtain permission from FORD if possible to scan this entire manual and make available on a public forum web site called http://www.coolcats.net . Within this link there is a ton of research and information on these cars as well as a link to http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com that represents the technical side of the house. I would rather not proceed with permission from HELM because HELM did not produce this manual. I would feel more comfortable with the permission from FORD directly if it is possible that i be granted such permission.

Thank you very much for taking the time to work with me on a topic that I feel is important enough to proceed in the proper manner for the sake of a breed of car that stands out in your fine history of automobile design and quality.

James Scott Cassity
**************************************************

----- Original Message -----
From: James cassity
To: member
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: EVTM Manual

Hello
Just got done with the scan. here are a couple of files to see what kind of quality you will deal with. Im pretty happy with the way they came out but well wait to see your end,, later on we hope.

scott
----- Original Message -----
From: member
To: revisedelf@brier.net
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 2:27 PM
Subject: EVTM Manual

Hi Jim,

Thanks for doing this. Please send the CD over my way. Don't fret about
how you save it too much...I'm a graphics professional and do this every
single day of my life. :) A JPG of good quality will be just fine. If you
can tweak the scanner to go to roughly 200dpi that's excellent. Otherwise
your standard 150dpi will still be fine.

insert private address here

Thanks for doing this man...it's going to save a lot of people some hassle.

-member name

************************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: James cassity
To: Kuntz, James (J.)
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: EVTM manual for the 1987 merc Cougar and Thunderbird

Hello Jim
"Does this manual, FPS-12116-87, contain information on all Ford passenger cars of just Thunderbird and Cougar? "

This manual is specific to the Ford Thunderbird and Mercury Cougar only.
Please see attached for the front,rear and front facing page for info as you requested.

"The full name and business address of the potential licensee
The name, phone number and Fax number of the contact person
The e-mail address of the contact person" \

This manual and contents are needed in electronic form to post on a free website i mentioned.
You may contact myself at 304 772 4082 or at email -- revisedelf@brier.net
My address is:
James Cassity
HC83 Box 70a
Gap Mills Wv 24941

There would be no profit made by anyone from this transaction, just to make information available about the chassis wiring and troubleshooting of these cars. The Whole manual would need to be placed on a central server for each member to review in time of need.

Thank you for contacting me and i hope to get permission to share this easy to follow manual with my fellow members. The information will be posted
here
http://www.coolcats.net
and here
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com

Again,, i hope i can be able to do this so that our cars are repaired with top knotch reference manuals.
Ill mention this again, there is no intent or plans past present or furture to make sales or profit from placing this manual on a public forum. Our website is a free resource for all fox body owners and all the information contained within is from the hard work of many people who car a lot about these cars.

Are the odds of getting permission looking ok?

James Scott Cassity
304 772 4082

----- Original Message -----
From: Kuntz, James (J.)
To: revisedelf@brier.net
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 5:06 PM
Subject: RE: EVTM manual for the 1987 merc Cougar and Thunderbird

Hi James:

My name is Jim Kuntz and I handle the licensing of Ford technical information. In order to assist you I need some additional information.

Does this manual, FPS-12116-87, contain information on all Ford passenger cars of just Thunderbird and Cougar?
Please send a PDF file of the front and back covers and the inside facing page.
The full name and business address of the potential licensee

The name, phone number and Fax number of the contact person

The e-mail address of the contact person

Is this the potential licensee an individual or corporation and state of incorporation if applicable

The planed wholesale/ retail price of the product.

The estimated annual sales volume by year for the first five years.

Product definition: Need a short concise description of the product as it would appear in the contract. (Is it the whole publication or excerpts. Format, etc.)

Regards,

Jim Kuntz
The Beanstalk Group
19540 Allen Rd.
Melvindale, MI 48122
Ph: 313.248.5736
Fax: 313.248.6359

-----Original Message-----
From: James cassity [mailto:revisedelf@brier.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 11:35 AM
To: Nens, John (J.J.)
Subject: EVTM manual for the 1987 merc Cougar and Thunderbird

Greetings
I was directed to contact you by this means via your 1 800 392 3673 CSR line. I am writing to obtain permission to circulate copies of the following manual in electronic form and to be posted on our web site to be used as a resource to help others troubleshoot.

Manual name and number:
1987 T-BIRD/COUGAR Electrical & Vacuum Trouble-Shooting Manual
FPS-12116-87
LITHO IN U.S.A.
Aug 1986

I and several thousand others are very passionate about these cars that range within the years 1983-1988 and have a need to share our manual information with others who own these fox body cars. Many owners of the mid 80's cougar and tbird have not been lucky enough to have the factory OEM shop manuals for troubleshooting reasons. Having said this, I would like to become aware of the process and move forward on permission to share this information on a car that we all feel is worth saving.

I can be contacted at 304 772 4082.

There is no intent on circulating this manual for monetary gain or other dishonest reasons. Our only promise to our members it to share everything we know about these fine cars from its history to general and detailed maintenance.

It is my intention to obtain permission from FORD if possible to scan this entire manual and make available on a public forum web site called http://www.coolcats.net . Within this link there is a ton of research and information on these cars as well as a link to http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com that represents the technical side of the house. I would rather not proceed with permission from HELM because HELM did not produce this manual. I would feel more comfortable with the permission from FORD directly if it is possible that i be granted such permission.

Thank you very much for taking the time to work with me on a topic that I feel is important enough to proceed in the proper manner for the sake of a breed of car that stands out in your fine history of automobile design and quality.

James Scott Cassity

***************************************************

----- Original Message -----
From: James cassity
To: member
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 3:51 PM
Subject: Fw: evtm

What to do?

Its my impression from this individual that if there were no ford logos and such connected to the drawings, that it would be difficult to connect these drawings to the 87evtm other than the fact that they match up perfectly, that being said still does not bear the burden of proof that they were a direct copy as he mentioned. In not so many words it was implied that could be an alternative workaround. He visited our site prior to his call to me as well as during the call. He was very impressed with its content and expressed his regret in a meaningful manner. Im curious of what could be tolerated here now that he has indicated that others are doing this as well and getting away with it. His words were constructed carefully as to not imply anything other than here is the process and here is how to go about getting done what you need. However, what we need is not offered because no one will ever make OEM manuals available on the internet for free, only in CD or Paper will be approved. Prior to getting permission to reproduce these manuals, you have to be bonded and licensed for about 1million or so dollars(typical general contractor agreement type insurance for liablity).

----- Original Message -----
From: James cassity
To: member
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 3:38 PM
Subject: evtmq

It was shot down. see topic update. We are allow to produce our own wiring diagrams without getting into trouble and post those.

*************************************************

----- Original Message -----
From: James cassity
To: member
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: evtm again

yes,, those are the words from Jim,, if the drawings are interperted into something in a form other than a direct copy type face ect,, then we're free. Its gotta be a clean cut though man., no mistakes especially when hes been peeking in on us today. I invited him to the site to provide some insight to the substance of what you have put together. I now regret that.

I cant wait till you get the cd

scott
----- Original Message -----
From: member
To: James cassity
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: evtm again

> member
> Just hatched an idea. In all the world of pc stuff that you deal with, is
> it possible to do the following?
>
> copy and paste each drawing into another program
> edit the schematics to be black and white only
> maybe each wire / component would be solid in color thus changing things
> just enough to prove its not replicated exactly
> leave out all text and pager headers and create our own.
>
> sounds like a lot of work to take the risk
>
> scott

----- Original Message -----

From: member
To: James cassity
Subject: Re: evtm again

I had ideas along the lines of this. "Artistic interpretation", we'll call
it. ;)

It's very possible to repurpose the scans into something else. I was
thinking maybe changing the font used as well...that could be a pain in
the ass, but it's possible. Let me mess around with it for a little bit
and we'll see if we can come up with a solution.

So assuming we do this and it's good, can we then distribute it on CD?

-member

***********************************************

Evtm

Reply #23 – June 16, 2009, 02:25:20 AM

and in all honesty people, over 2 years ago i ran an evtm loto giving away free cd's of the wiring diagrams , no charge. how shameful and bad can you get.

just do a search here for "evtm loto"

here are the winners who have EVTM's. some of which may have chimed in on this thread.

evtm loto winners

-do not deliver nirvana god
Heh, I'll allow someone else to have it. I don't exactly have a need for it! Prolly shouldn't have answered

-ifixyawata

-sick88tbird

-88sportcoupe

-Cougar8775

-ZondaC12

-stuntmannick

-quietleaf

-sduneman

-sleeper t-bird 87

-daboss 351

-5.0willgo

-aerobird motorsports

-ispd

-Bill Bennett

-88cat

-tbirdera

-turbocoupe5.0

-soft touch

warbird9

cougarse

-V8Demon

-84fila

-gumby
mailed to someoneelse for him as a gift to a friend.

-amooset

--booksix

Evtm

Reply #24 – June 16, 2009, 08:29:27 AM

So what does your previous post have to do with you deciding to pull ALL of the info out of a thread -- to include other non EVTM stuff --- LOTS OF IT --- and then claiming you'll put it back. You pulled down TONS of info that was 100% public domain that wasn't even attached to the EVTM...

Interesting how no one has touched this thread in a month and then YOU bring it back telling everyone else to be patient. Seeing as how it wans't at the top of the forum list I would say that most people ARE being patient....

Quote

-do not deliver nirvana god
Heh, I'll allow someone else to have it. I don't exactly have a need for it! Prolly shouldn't have answered

Hold a grudge much? What was the purpose of leaving THAT in there?

Evtm

Reply #25 – June 16, 2009, 02:30:28 PM

Quote from: V8Demon;278012

So what does your previous post have to do with you deciding to pull ALL of the info out of a thread -- to include other non EVTM stuff --- LOTS OF IT --- and then claiming you'll put it back. You pulled down TONS of info that was 100% public domain that wasn't even attached to the EVTM...

Interesting how no one has touched this thread in a month and then YOU bring it back telling everyone else to be patient. Seeing as how it wans't at the top of the forum list I would say that most people ARE being patient....

Hold a grudge much? What was the purpose of leaving THAT in there?

No,, you are taking it wrong again,, you are not understanding what that means. Its no grudge,, those are his words, not mine. it was just a note to myself to remind me that i didnt (at that time) owe a cd.
why would you assume things like that of me?

here is the ilnk,, gotta prove everything lately. Seeing a trend? peoiple jump to conlusions and start wars over nothing.

http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=14252&highlight=evtm+loto&page=2

I was bothered by something unrelated and thought it would be nice to back up what i said earlier with proof here bout the ford contact and such.
I was working on the problem im having with the diy info last night and needed some info in here (or thougth it was). I was including an idea you had a while ago giving credit where credit is due.

Evtm

Reply #26 – June 16, 2009, 03:02:04 PM

Quote

those are his words, not mine. it was just a note to myself to remind me that i didnt (at that time) owe a cd.

Fair enough. My apologies on that.

Quote

gotta prove everything lately. Seeing a trend? peoiple jump to conlusions and start wars over nothing.

Guess that makes you the pot & me the kettle?

FWIW -- who did you have to prove the fact that you had permission to? That one person who made a passing statement who hasn't logged on in quite some time?
BTW -- I know you won't name that person, but one can surmise he was perhaps a regular poster at one point and no longer is. I may be wrong about that, but I doubt it.

No one else questioned that as far as I can remember. I STILL do not understand the reason for pulling the other info. That could have waited until you had the update complete. I know one of your reasons was that people said it was hard to find thing in it. A simple tutorial on how to use CTRL + F is what may be needed for those who stated that.

Evtm

Reply #27 – June 16, 2009, 04:45:09 PM

I like how wiki allows key words to have an image pop up when you hover. THats what im lookng for.

Evtm

Reply #28 – June 16, 2009, 04:55:57 PM

That might be a plugin or script that would have to be installed at forum level...