The Goat dies again...... Reply #15 – February 27, 2006, 04:22:02 PM QuoteThe old GTO was a Tempest, and there was no shouting from the rooftops coming from that 'tiger'. It was stealth in the beginning. The 'Judge' of other muscle cars didn't come until flashy was the order of the day.True enough...however...which version do you think people remember most--the stealthy, or the in-your-face? QuoteAnd you just proved it. The public looked back to The Judge for a definition of the GTO, not its true origins as a tire melting grocery getter. When they found the later, they were disappointed.Apparently that's not what America wants anymore. And the sales reflected that. Compare a 300 to a GTO...which one do you think the kids would say looks cooler? Right now it's all about the bling, and the GTO came dressed in sweatpants. Those that 'got it', bought it. Everyone else stayed away. The styling had absolutely everything to do with why it tanked. Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #16 – February 27, 2006, 05:51:29 PM Sadly, you're right. That doesn't make 'it' right though. :(*edit*Funny, the GTO and the Barracuda had the same timeline. Regular a-b car with a monster hidden under the hood. But later, The Judge and 'Cuda persona are all people really remember. Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #17 – February 27, 2006, 06:29:59 PM Well...it's not all that people remember...just the most recent thing. Short memory spans down here. There is a very fine line between sneaking under the radar and not trying hard enough. Name for me, the last muscle car with a rounded, jellybean shape.Exactly. It's like, something needed to be 'chiseled' on the GTO for it to step out of the Monaro moniker. Muscle cars have sharp, defined, creased lines somewhere on the car. They have a high shoulder, a balanced rear flank, the long hood/short deck layout, and the perfect stance. The GTO had pretty much none of that...it all got refined right out the door. Even just a small hint of sharpness could have possibly salvaged the design.Official Eric Quote™: "If it don't look good on a poster, it ain't gonna be remembered in the future." Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #18 – February 27, 2006, 08:31:16 PM Well, I reemmber the Judge because I had a '69 that looked like the Judge. I spent may hours behind the wheel of that car... Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #19 – February 27, 2006, 09:59:23 PM Quote from: Paul FlockhartWe were told by GM that the PLATFORM the GTO was on would be revamped. They just decided to kill it all together.3 model years, only 45,000 units sold in the first 2, shipping from Australia, changes to meet US emissions, tooling at the plant for GTO specific parts.......Did GM make any money on this?Actually you are wrong. The platform was NEVER going to be revamped. It's a 12 year old platform now and Holden had already announced 06 was it because it wouldn't meet 07 crash standards as a platform. (Remember, the Aussies have ute's and 4-doors and wagons built on this thing, the 2-door came last) It was ALWAYS known (well, since 04 anyway) that there would be no revamping. And there were only 27200 sold in the first 2 years (157xx 04's, 115xx 05's) and not because of poor sales (04's sold 98% up until news of 400HP 05 broke, bringing final tally to 05's intro at 94.5%, 05's have sold 99%) but due to lack of supply. The factory just can't produce anymore of them, and as of June 1st they won't be allowed to by federal law. The current problem GM is having is whether to bring a Ponchod Monaro back over or wait till 08/09 and release one based on a Camaro. They already have a Camaro-based GTO show car built which was supposed to be at the LA Auto Show (GM pulled at the last second for some reason). Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #20 – February 27, 2006, 10:20:58 PM Eh just looked like an oversized grand am / gran prix. Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #21 – February 27, 2006, 11:36:57 PM QuoteActually you are wrong. The platform was NEVER going to be revampedI should have chosen my words more carefully. By revamped I had meant that a new/different chassis would be the basis for the GTO.....At least, that's what I had read in a few placesAs far as sales figures, the following quote is from this page:http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka.aspx?year=2006&make=Pontiac&model=GTOQuoteThe GTO thus had disappointing sales last year of 13,569 cars, or about 5,000 units short of projected sales. Many of the growing number of fast-car buyers were waiting for the $24,600 redesigned 300-horsepower 2005 Ford Mustang GT V8 coupeThe quote, of course, refers to the '04 model yearAlso :http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2004/07/13/cx_mf_0713test.htmlQuoteThe problem is that GTO, which in its 1960s-70s heyday was about shagy styling and road-stomping muscle, is lagging way behind targeted sales, with more than a 100-day supply on hand at most dealerships. GM will be lucky to shift 12,000 units of the $31,795 GTO when it wanted to move at least 18,000. So why aren't the cars moving off the lots? And another.......http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0502_pontiac_gto/Quotesales of the Holden-sourced Pontiac GTO are running at less than half of expectationsI can't seem to find much info for the '05 sales figures.....I've heard that they were both higher than '04 AND lower than '04. The above articles and many more like them are the reason I stated sales were poor. Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #22 – February 28, 2006, 01:19:00 AM Sales figures are lower (115xx) but that's due to factory shortage. Holden simply couldn't crank out enough of them. Apparrently about 5000 orders got rolled into 06's. That number seems really high until you figure in that in July people found out there would be Orange in 06 so alot of those are voluntary (unlike the 05 Mustang which just didn't have enough cars to meet demand). Interestingly though, my local dealer (Diehl Ford) has 2 GT's and 3 V6's, ALL of which have been here since Thanksgiving, at MSRP. I test drove their Gunmetal/Black GT coupe and the Gunmetal/Red GT Vert. Got a $50 gift card which I used in buying my pick-up truck:D Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #23 – February 28, 2006, 09:45:24 AM Quote from: Chuck WMy buddy also has an '05. Aside from looking like every other Pontiac it's an ok car. I got a kick out of the ass-backwards controls for things like the stereo and the parking brake lever being in the "wrong" spot. I still wouldn't buy one personally.I'm not a fan of the Solstice at all..then again I'm not a big roadster person.WOW I'm honored, I actually purchased a newer car that Chuck W thinks is "ok" :hick: Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #24 – February 28, 2006, 11:13:41 AM so what lasted longer the GTOor the new thunderbird? :o :flame: QuoteAnother rear-wheel drive performance car is planned for release by Pontiac, but nothing is solid at this pointId rather see the firebird/trans am come back then that "GTO". The challenger looks really good. A nice mix of old an new, the 05+ mustangs just look bland to me. Now if pontiac could so something similar to what dodge is doing with the challenger for a firebird/trans am that would be a pretty nice looking car imho (depending on what year(s) they modeled it after) Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #25 – February 28, 2006, 11:19:12 AM Quote from: BaneId rather see the firebird/trans am come back then that "GTO". The challenger looks really good. A nice mix of old an new, the 05+ mustangs just look bland to me. Now if pontiac could so something similar to what dodge is doing with the challenger for a firebird/trans am that would be a pretty nice looking car imho (depending on what year(s) they modeled it after)I think Pontiac could easily score a major hit if they design a new firebird after the second generation body style from the early 70's. Like this '72. Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #26 – February 28, 2006, 11:20:45 AM Quote from: Baneso what lasted longer the GTOor the new thunderbird? :o :flame: Id rather see the firebird/trans am come back then that "GTO". The challenger looks really good. A nice mix of old an new, the 05+ mustangs just look bland to me. Now if pontiac could so something similar to what dodge is doing with the challenger for a firebird/trans am that would be a pretty nice looking car imho (depending on what year(s) they modeled it after)I disagree. If we get a Firebird/TA, it should be a modern design. Doing a retro 'bird at this point would give us just another Camaro (remember what the 67-69 Camaro and FB looked like? Pretty much the same relationship the Monaro and GTO has). A retro Camaro and a modern Firebird would keep them from alienating anyone, unlike the new Mustang, which pissed off the retro hating crowd that wanted a new pony. Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #27 – February 28, 2006, 12:52:21 PM Quote from: 5.0willgoI think Pontiac could easily score a major hit if they design a new firebird after the second generation body style from the early 70's. Like this '72.Ewwww, I had one of thoes Fireturds - it was awful looking - I wouldn't have even driven it if I hadn't gotten it for a bargain off of my aunt. I'll take my '69 GTO back any day of the week. Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #28 – February 28, 2006, 01:06:45 PM My brother has a '73 T/A that's almost identical to that photo, except his has the screaming chicken. Under the shaker is a 455 (not a Super Duty but still fun). It's a nice looking car. Still like the looks of his '80 T/A better.I think the next Firebird should be an evolution from the Gen4. I really think they nailed that shape in 1993 and am really curious as to what it would have evolved into. Let the Camaro and GTO have their heritage, and move the Firebird forward. Either way, Pontiac wins...and let's face it, they need a hit car badly. Quote Selected
The Goat dies again...... Reply #29 – February 28, 2006, 10:28:36 PM Now that would be cool. The new Camaro as that butt-ugly 69 look-a-like and on the same platform a Gen V Firechicken continuing on! I've always loved how the Firebird's just got more advanced every generation. "Revolution" designing instead of "evolution". Think Porsche 911 on the "evolution" and the RX7 for "revolution". Each design was clean-sheet but you still new it was RX7 (low, 2-door, pop-ups, hatch, rotary power:D) Quote Selected
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