Cold air intakes

Topic: Cold air intakes (Read 34179 times) previous topic - next topic

Cold air intakes

Reply #60 – July 22, 2014, 02:08:39 PM

Quote from: V8Demon;436222

I still would like to see some proven flow numbers for the stock box..... If I go with a March box, rest assured that the fenderwell and box hole to it will be enlarged.

Well I just ordered the CT5 sample tube and the K&N filter from Mustangs Unlimited. Hopefully they get here by the weekend. When they get here I'm going to swap the parts on with a modified March box and see if I notice a difference.

I'm also going to run both the stock airbox with a panel K&N and the March box with the conical K&N and see if there is a difference. I will use the correct sample tubes and disconnect the battery before each run. I want to see if there is a quantifiable difference in performance.

Looking at the March box and the radiator support I'm pretty sure there is room to cut out the circle on the front of the March box and use a short section of 4-5" ducting to connect it to the area in front of the radiator. Not only would it be in taking air from the fender well but also the area in front of the radiator/behind the passenger headlamp.

Cold air intakes

Reply #61 – July 22, 2014, 03:04:26 PM

With a 306 motor I don't think you are going to notice the difference between the stock air box with a K&N and any other configuration unless you are going to come up past 7,000 rpm. I could be wrong but I just cannot see any performance gain with the smaller cubic inch motors as the flat panel / stock box will support that. I will definitely be curious to see what you find out. I have a CAI kit as my car was a four cylinder car so I did not have the stock box to work with.

Until someone on the Corral or elsewhere flows the stock box with an element in it on a flow bench I don't want to hear anything about it. It's not a function of the stock box its the area of the filter element in question. I can pull the filter out of the stock box and support 500 hp so were they really running an element???

Darren

Cold air intakes

Reply #62 – July 22, 2014, 05:21:54 PM

Found this little tidbit: http://books.google.com/books?id=UfQyYA_P-nQC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=march+ram+air+pressurized&source=bl&ots=xoXqgRzUhf&sig=_aThySGKCEbQNqEGhFAqv4HBgiU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7dLOU6mALIWyyATL-4KQBg&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=march%20ram%20air%20pressurized&f=false

March ram air box, filter, and hose without the scoop picked up 11hp over the stock box on a dyno. On a stock 5.0 HO.

I have the box, scoop, hose, and filter. I bought it years ago when my Thunderbird was stock. 17 year old me thought it was a good idea:hick:. It went back to the stock airbox because it used to suck up a bunch of junk. The Filter in the kit is slightly narrower than the MAF meter inlet so you can't bolt it directly to the MAF. The filter I ordered is the same dimensionally as the March filter but has a 3.5" opening in the rear. I'm going to bolt the filter to the end of the MAF and use the March box to shield the filter from under hood heat. I haven't decided if I'm going to run the hose or not but if I do it sure won't be with that scoop. I might try to tuck it up into the bumper somehow.

As for the K&N panel in the Thunderbird now it will end up in the Mark VII.

Cold air intakes

Reply #63 – July 22, 2014, 05:32:45 PM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;436226

Until someone on the Corral or elsewhere flows the stock box with an element in it on a flow bench I don't want to hear anything about it. It's not a function of the stock box its the area of the filter element in question. I can pull the filter out of the stock box and support 500 hp so were they really running an element???

Darren

That's the issue. I know the holes in the box are big enough but is the filter able to flow the air? I'm sure as hell going to find out. I'm betting it flows plenty for a E7 or GT40 headed motor. Now aftermarket aluminum heads? I'm not so sure. I switched from GT40Ps to Edelbrock Performers (which flow about 40-50cfm more) and the car went 5-6mph faster in the quarter. I may be exceeding the ability of a stock panel filter to supply air. Maybe not. I'm going to find out though

This thread also reminds me that my car's intake manifold is a restriction. The GT40 lower flows about 30cfm less than the heads I have. I either have to get it ported or swap to another intake. That's next springs project.

Cold air intakes

Reply #64 – July 22, 2014, 06:59:59 PM

Quote from: thunderjet302;436224

Well I just ordered the CT5 sample tube and the K&N filter from Mustangs Unlimited. Hopefully they get here by the weekend. When they get here I'm going to swap the parts on with a modified March box and see if I notice a difference.

I'm also going to run both the stock airbox with a panel K&N and the March box with the conical K&N and see if there is a difference. I will use the correct sample tubes and disconnect the battery before each run. I want to see if there is a quantifiable difference in performance.

Looking at the March box and the radiator support I'm pretty sure there is room to cut out the circle on the front of the March box and use a short section of 4-5" ducting to connect it to the area in front of the radiator. Not only would it be in taking air from the fender well but also the area in front of the radiator/behind the passenger headlamp.

Uhh, circle on the front of the box is what holds the front of the air filter. Also, considering k&n filters have a solid end cap, there would be no air flow possible, so i'd strongly recommend against that idea. Simply matching the box to the fender opening will result in more flow area than my 90mm maf by far, so i don't see why any more would be necessary.

Cold air intakes

Reply #65 – July 22, 2014, 10:49:22 PM

Quote from: a77cj7;436240

Uhh, circle on the front of the box is what holds the front of the air filter. Also, considering k&n filters have a solid end cap, there would be no air flow possible, so i'd strongly recommend against that idea. Simply matching the box to the fender opening will result in more flow area than my 90mm maf by far, so i don't see why any more would be necessary.

I looked at the March box tonight and yeah cutting the front out serves no purpose. I'm not going to do it.

I measured the snorkel opening. The diameter of the opening is 90mm, or 3.5 inches. That's bigger than the MAF and tubing, which is 76mm (about 3 inches).

So I've got two options with the March box:

1. Run the box with the snorkel and attach the flex tube to it. I would duct the flex tube behind the bumper to pull in air. It shouldn't be a restriction as the flex tubing is 5 inches in diameter. The engine would have to draw the air from further away though.

2. Cut the snorkel off and enlarge the opening in the box to match the fender. That would be the equivalent of almost a 5 inch diameter pipe. It would be pulling air from the fender well just like the stock air box.

I'm leaning towards option 2. I can't imagine pulling air from behind the bumper is going to make any more power than pulling it from the fender well. Plus I would think bigger hole that's closer to the filter might make more power than a long tube far away from the filter. Unless I can angle the flex tube to an area with an air hole in the lower bumper. Then I might get ram air! Probably not though

. I'm still thinking I'm better off with option number 2. Thoughts?

Cold air intakes

Reply #66 – July 23, 2014, 12:00:03 AM

Option 2. I'm a bit biased though as it would appear we're on the same wavelength.

Cold air intakes

Reply #67 – July 23, 2014, 12:26:34 AM

Quote from: V8Demon;436260

Option 2. I'm a bit biased though as it would appear we're on the same wavelength.

I'm thinking that's the best option. Although hacking the out of the ram air scoop to make it fit behind the air on the bumper sounds fun. Because RAM AIR! Well actually cold air. I doubt the system could be pressurized by incoming air. Besides that would really screw with the MAF. The box would have to be sealed, which isn't possible unless the end of the filter was some how sealed to the back of the box.

I'm still intrigued by the fact that the March system picked up 11hp on the dyno on a stock 5.0 with an un modified box and the ductwork attached to the box.

Cold air intakes

Reply #68 – July 23, 2014, 11:41:53 AM

The main problem with the ram air system is it rams all sorts of road debris in along with the air. I've seen several reviews complaining about birds sucked into the air box, and pretty much everyone who has run it complains about how quickly the filter gets dirty. So in the interest of not having to empty the box of gravel weekly, I'd go with option 2. (which is exactly what i'm doing)

If you're only running a 76mm maf, there is probably no reason to match the box to the fender, you can just run it as is. I don't remember what i came up with for an intake area on the box, but it was larger than 3".

Cold air intakes

Reply #69 – July 23, 2014, 03:44:20 PM

Quote from: a77cj7;436267

The main problem with the ram air system is it rams all sorts of road debris in along with the air. I've seen several reviews complaining about birds sucked into the air box, and pretty much everyone who has run it complains about how quickly the filter gets dirty. So in the interest of not having to empty the box of gravel weekly, I'd go with option 2. (which is exactly what i'm doing)

If you're only running a 76mm maf, there is probably no reason to match the box to the fender, you can just run it as is. I don't remember what i came up with for an intake area on the box, but it was larger than 3".

I ended up trying to fit the scoop to the car this morning. It doesn't fit well around the inner fender. It fits but the hose is all kinds of kinked up, likely disrupting airflow. I do remember when I ran it before that it sucked up a bunch of off the road, a reason that I went back to the stock airbox.

I measured the hole and it was bigger than 76mm. I did end up cutting the snorkel off and smoothing out the opening to match the fender hole. It will pull in air from a hole that is as big as the fender opening, which is more than enough. I'll put some thin weather striping around the opening on the March box so it's sealed off from under hood air and can only draw air from the fender well, just like the stock box.

The hole in the stock airbox or fender isn't a restriction, it's the filter. The question is how much. I'm going to find out

Cold air intakes

Reply #70 – July 24, 2014, 01:46:23 AM

If you're gonna test em back to back, please post the results. I'm betting very little gain on your combo, but would like to see some data on the march box.
Chris

Cold air intakes

Reply #71 – July 24, 2014, 11:46:11 AM

Quote from: a77cj7;436304

If you're gonna test em back to back, please post the results. I'm betting very little gain on your combo, but would like to see some data on the march box.
Chris

I always test mods at the track. That way I can verifiably see if they make a difference. The "butt dyno" is not always accurate. For instance I swapped from a 65mm throttle body to a 70mm throttle body. Realistically one would expect to see zero difference and I didn't really feel any. The car picked up 1.5mph and .1 second. I went on different days but I used the Drag Times DA calculator to average out the times. Averaging out for weather conditions the car still picked up .1 second and 1.5mph. So in my car's case the 70mm throttle body was worth about 10hp. I also did a back to back test with the C&L intake tube vs the stock rubber one. Swapping back and forth several times on the same day the runs with the C&L tube were consistently .05 second and .05mph faster, meaning the tube was worth 3-5hp.

Cold air intakes

Reply #72 – July 24, 2014, 10:25:22 PM

Well I finished modifying the March ram air box. I removed the snorkel, enlarged the hole for air intake to match the fender, slotted the mounting holes so I could line the box up with the fender hole, and put some weather strip around the opening so air can only be pulled from the fender well. The box as molded sat further back in with the original holes and didn't fully cover the fender opening. This was done so the snorkel would clear the fender opening with the hose attached. My Dremel got a workout.

Now I just need the correct sample tube and the K&N filter to show up and I'll swap this on. I think it should pull in a decent amount of air

Cold air intakes

Reply #73 – August 09, 2014, 01:36:56 PM

I got the K&N Conical filter and the correct MAf calibration installed yesterday. I didn't take it to the track (hopefully in the next few weeks) so I just drove the car around on the street. I don't know if it added any power however it takes noticeably less throttle application for the same amount of acceleration. The engine seems to rev quicker than it did with the stock airbox and K&N panel filter. Passing power on the highway has been improved as the car responds faster. It should be noted that all of this is courtesy of my calibrated butt dyno

. I will get track results and post them. I took some pictures of the setup (sorry cell phone pictures at night). March Ram Air box with snorkel removed and the hole in the box enlarged to the fender opening, K&N RE-0920 conical filter, 76mm C&L MAF, 4"long by 3.5" ID rubber coupler, C&L true flow pipe (76mm ID).

Cold air intakes

Reply #74 – August 20, 2014, 10:46:50 AM

Pretty much what I did to my box. I'm waiting to install. Been looking for some type of extension for the front end. of the MAF to make my filter come forward approximately another 3/4". I want my MAF mounted on the shock tower just like it is right now. I may end up just buying a small piece of 3.5" I.D steel tubing then cutting it to the length I need and cleaning it up. The temps dropped here already. Been in the mid 50's at night so heat soak has really been non-existent at this point between that and the new rad. Add to this how busy I was at work in early August (10 days in a row stuck late......FUN) and I just didn't have time. Oh yeah, I'm back on steady midnights now too (FINALLY!!!). So I'll have some free time to mess with it next week. This week I'm closing my pool.

Seriously, it's August and I'm closing the pool. NEVER thought I'd do that. I got a feeling it's gonna be ANOTHER long and py winter......