5 lug converstion complete

Topic: 5 lug converstion complete (Read 8285 times) previous topic - next topic

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #15 – June 11, 2016, 02:33:59 AM

There is a valve that tells the Booster how much assist to give. When that valve or seal goes bad, the pedal sinks to the floor. You are getting too much assist, not not at all.

Like I said, pull the vacuum line off and all will be well. Not saying you should, but it wouldn't bother me a bit to drive with the Booster bypassed for a week or two as long as I knew it was there. You can still lock up the brakes, it won't be impossible to stop or drive in traffic, everything will be exactly the same as it is now just with more pedal power required. It's there is old ladies don't have a hard time holding the brake pedal down during rush hour.

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #16 – June 11, 2016, 09:39:50 AM

UPDATE I forgot,,

when we start the bird up and do our thing pumping brakes and such,, then shut off the car,,,
when we undo the check valve on the booster,,, there is a bunch of air that rushes into the booster opening where the check valve was.

this tells me the diaphragm is not blown!!!

or am I missing something.....?

we don't want to waste time doing a booster if its not bad and all that is wrong is the combo of parts...

so ,,, if the booster holds vac pressure then it should be ok,,???

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #17 – June 11, 2016, 12:37:28 PM

Quote

the booster has always had a hiss noise when the brake is applied,, but something has me thinking the booster is bad,,, I have no idea at this point what to do

Quote

when we start the bird up and do our thing pumping brakes and such,, then shut off the car,,,
when we undo the check valve on the booster,,, there is a bunch of air that rushes into the booster opening where the check valve was

It is possible that the booster is holding vacuum until the pedal is applied and then leaking around a seal as they are applied. The leak is small enough that they are providing the boost needed and not causing any other issues. The only thing the booster is going to effect is the ease of application of the brakes. It is not the reason your pedal is going to the floor but it is helping you get it there.

To correctly change the pedal ratio you are most likely going to have to relocate the booster and master on the fire wall to keep the pedal rod correctly aligned. If you are in doubt about the booster it's not a bad time to change it out anyway.

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #18 – June 11, 2016, 01:40:35 PM

There are some good threads on here about upgrading the brakes, and the booster. Most upgrade to the 93 mustang cobra booster or mod the firewall and install the 94 up booster.

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #19 – June 11, 2016, 10:59:38 PM

did some self pace training today on web vids showing how to determine if the brake booster is bad or not.

ours passed
so we kept it.

we installed the 2004 pony master cyl and we had only the front brakes tied in.

all is well in the world of braking ...........except 1 part,, the old bone yard calipers are sticking.

so .. tomorrow we will attempt to take out the pistons, do some corrosion control and put them back together.
we have another option which is to buy reman or new if they are on the shelf tomorrow or Monday morning.,, otherwise, we are going to use our time wisely to see if we can wake up these front dual piston calipers which are basically locking up the front wheels.

so,, even though it sounds bad,, progress was made.

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #20 – June 12, 2016, 09:21:48 PM

we just now finished up,,,
This 5lug swap project is done.
we spent more time than I thought would even come close to reasonable but its all good.

The biggest and best adjustment to fine tune things is the booster rod,, we got rid of all the take up and man are these breaks the best!!

we omitted the combination valve completely and made an adjustable unit which now lives where the old combo valve was.
We played around with adjustments to the rear varga's and finally settled on wide open,, that may change later if mason decides to but......... I have never had these cars stop so level ever.

thanks everyone!

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #21 – June 13, 2016, 08:34:04 AM

I need to do a brake swap. Mine suck. Tiny little stock brakes.

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #22 – June 13, 2016, 09:11:36 AM

Update,
so we now understand more about assisting brakes and its becoming more clear to me now why a cobra booster would be the next logical and final step.

this is on the table for the next time mason is back home.

I will post pics soon of all this.

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #23 – June 13, 2016, 10:34:33 AM

Quote from: jcassity;455751

We played around with adjustments to the rear varga's and finally settled on wide open,, that may change later if mason decides to but......... I have never had these cars stop so level ever.

thanks everyone!

Be careful as too much rear brake bias will tend to lockup on a wet surface...

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #24 – June 13, 2016, 04:30:46 PM

I will back pedal some pictures here now that mason is on the way back to Charlottesville Va

here are a few pics of starting up the project

our application was a 88tbird sport with a 2.73 trac loc 7.5'' rear ,, going to 4wheel disc brakes with PBR calipers up front both having dual pistons and using Varga in the rear which have single pistons.

visually you will see the s-shaped spring in the middle of the gear set along with small tabs of clutch plates on the right.... and yes both wheels roll in the same direction when one is turned in that direction.

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #25 – June 13, 2016, 04:40:30 PM

This is what you don't want to learn after nearly a year of planning out parts.

you must confirm your parts list for the rear by deciding if you are "5lug keeping drum" or going "5lug going disc"

we did not know any better and thought incorrectly.
Here you see our first problem was 5lug axles that are exactly the same length as original 4lug axles. this would be fine if we were keeping rear drum. these 5lug axles were given to us free.,, no good though for our application.

to fix the problem, you buy summit axles by two choices,, one set is 30.63'' 28spline(summit brand) long and the other is 30.75'' 28spline (higher end brand) which actually is the perfect length for the job.
We were forced to use the 30.63'' long 28spline axles due to what was in stock and next day air shipping of 75$.
--the bonus is that summit also provides you at no extra cost the correct rear bearings and seals on their branded axle.
Fully inserted then c-clip installed then pulling back on the axle to take up slack, the rotors would rub the rear caliper.
-the fix, 1/8'' shims over top your axle studs then install the rotor and its all perfect.

**do not ever purchase the rear axle bearing / wheel seal "combo kit" ,, it sucks ass berries badly. only install the skinny 1/2'' wide axle bearing and a separate seal.

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #26 – June 13, 2016, 04:50:00 PM

the next two pictures show how our incorrect axles could not insert fully into the their home because the "additional" shoulder flair on the axle prevented us from fully inserting into the axle tube because we kept hitting the axle outside seal.

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #27 – June 13, 2016, 05:13:44 PM

No matter what your told, I am very certain the need for inner tie rod ends is mandatory,, you have to buy them.

The replacement spindles orient the geometry of the outer tie rod end that if you "kept" your old inner tie rod ends, your replacement outer tie rod ends in my opinion would not catch enough threads.

With that being said, its your call.

Strut fitment has three problems to work through.
-the mounting holes on your replacement spindle are 1/8'' closer center to center than your old spindles.
to fix you install the lower strut bolt, then file out the upper strut opening along the top side to finally allow the bolt to go in.

-Your replacement spindle strut mount hunk of steel is more skinny than your original leaving you to think about two options.
to fix don't just cinch down the bolts to crush the strut because you will never get the bolts out easy later. add 1/8'' flat washers to the strut mounting bolts to take up the difference.

-once you set your strut you notice that the lower ball joint nut is going to bump into the lower part of the strut.
to fix you add the flat washers mentioned above to the correct side of the strut and this will fix the issue.
also to fix, if you happen to collect old hardware like me, you may have the "smaller" type ball joint nuts. I have seen two ball joint nuts, there is one that is fat and one that is skinny and one of these is also a tad shorter... your choice on which you use.

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #28 – June 13, 2016, 05:17:10 PM

Here is how we solved the rear caliper brake hose attachment.
simply reuse the existing hole that is currently clamping down your existing brake line.

this may not suit you but we were satisfied with this layout for both sides.

due to the design of the hose assembly, mounting as shown mostly if not 100% puts the metal plate in a "locked down" bind.

simply cut your existing line back and provide new fittings as required and do bubble flairs.

to rework brake line connections all your lines are considered 3/16'' fittings. I purchased several boxes of fittings in advance that fit the old original stuff that's on the car plus fittings that are compatible for early / late SN95 donor parts.

either way you will need new fittings for your brake hose transitions and your existing lines.

********NOT SHOWN HERE>> up front your existing front caliper metal bracket that transitions you from a rubber to metal hose,, take out that bracket and then using a stepper drill bit, you must drill out the hole to accommodate the larger and "hexagon" shaped front caliper hose fitting. once done you can now insert your new brake line and add the old clip to hold it in place. the down side is from now on you have to hold the brake line with a wrench while loosening the hard line with a line wrench but we do not see this as too big of an issue.

5 lug converstion complete

Reply #29 – June 13, 2016, 05:25:47 PM

the next two pictures show how we overcame a few problems.

you can use an early SN95 master cyl which has two fittings. newer SN95 masters have everything sideways or 90 degrees out of phase.
you can use a 93cobra master cyl
**I don't personally see any net gain in using a 93cobra master

each above have the same fluid reservoir

YOU MUST buy a new master cylinder if going disc all the way around. if your keeping drum in the rear then you "might" be ok with your stock smaller cylinder bore master.

Delete your existing combination valve
the front fitting on your master cyl ********IS larger but **is 3/16'' line.
the front fitting transitions through your combo valve and turns into 1/4'' line!!!! know this and be prepared when you make your new rear adjustment valve.
your adjustment valve should be ready to accept 1/4'' line coming in from the rear and 3/16'' line out and up to the front fitting of the master.
**an option I "would have" done is change the 3/16'' short section of line to 1/4'' but I had no 1/4'' fittings on hand to screw into the master.
We started doing our test runs for brakes with the rear fitting wide open,, over time my son will reduce the fluid delivery to the rear when he notices the rear is locking up in wet road conditions or snow ect.

The rear fitting on our chosen early sn95 master cyl has a Tee installed such that we are now a home run dedicated line to each front wheel with the common feed line from the master cyl.

in some areas we used the nickel copper brake line available at the parts stores... flairs so nice!!

this does not in my opinion look pretty ,, we were screwed for time.