Time for some new ignition wires Reply #30 – October 31, 2014, 12:25:27 AM Don't forget BSFC comes into play. Generally the average h/c/i upgrade will lower it, which is a good thing. Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #31 – October 31, 2014, 02:12:52 AM Put my 30lb injectors in, installed my old Ford Racing wires, and sent the new injector parameters to the EEC. Fuel pressure held just fine with the engine off and simply priming the system with ignition-on. Plugged in o2 sensors and started car. Passenger bank kept running rich - 0.8V. Swapped o2 sensors and it stayed rich on the passenger side. Whenever the idle would stumble, the rich o2 sensor would show the AFR dip down a little and return, but still remained around 0.8V.I put the part store wires back on the passenger side and I started to get switching from the o2 sensor. Swapped rotor and cap, but saw no difference.I really don't want these wires, so they will be going back, but I really need to get some decent wires on there.Idle is still rough with closed-loop. I will have to wait until this weekend when I swap my midpipe to get rid of the cat rattle - it can be difficult to hear anything. I have no idea how smooth the engine should run with the HO cam. It has been so long since the SO cam was in there, I don't even remember how that thing idled. I assume we can't hope for smoothness like any newer v8. Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #32 – October 31, 2014, 10:41:13 AM How rough is it running? Do you fell the engine shaking sitting in the car? My Mark VII has a stock HO cam. I can visibly see the engine shake a little with the hood up (ALL engines do) but I can't feel it running sitting in the driver's seat. My Thunderbird has a slightly larger than stock HO cam (a little more duration intake and exhaust plus a bunch more lift) and I can see it shake at idle but I don't feel it sitting in the driver's seat. But no a Windsor 5.0 is not going to be as smooth as a DOHC Coyote 5.0. Remember it's just an engine designed in the early 1960's with EFI added on later . Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #33 – October 31, 2014, 10:54:39 AM Quote from: thunderjet302;439995How rough is it running? Do you fell the engine shaking sitting in the car? My Mark VII has a stock HO cam. I can visibly see the engine shake a little with the hood up (ALL engines do) but I can't feel it running sitting in the driver's seat. My Thunderbird has a slightly larger than stock HO cam (a little more duration intake and exhaust plus a bunch more lift) and I can see it shake at idle but I don't feel it sitting in the driver's seat. But no a Windsor 5.0 is not going to be as smooth as a DOHC Coyote 5.0. Remember it's just an engine designed in the early 1960's with EFI added on later .What motor mounts do you have? I have Chuck's mounts with what I believe was the medium-stiffness isolators. I've been able to feel the motor for as long as I can remember. Even when the motor if running "smooth" at 1200rpms on cold start, I can still feel it.The old SO firing also order could have made the thing idle differently. I'd need to sit in a stock Mustang or Thunderbird to have any idea what is normal. Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #34 – October 31, 2014, 11:47:02 AM Stock 86-88 Thunderbird/Cougar 5.0 mounts with solid rubber isolators from NAPA. Been running it that way for 7 years. Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #35 – October 31, 2014, 12:47:43 PM Quote from: thunderjet302;439999Stock 86-88 Thunderbird/Cougar 5.0 mounts with solid rubber isolators from NAPA. Been running it that way for 7 years.I assume you mean stock replacement, but solid rubber? Stock mounts to me means hydraulic.I'll spend a lot of time with the car this weekend. I will play with my new microphone, but I should be able to get a good sample from the exhaust noise. It's nice to have a mic that works on my phone - I had to add 1.1Kohm of resistors before the thing would be recognized by Android. Maybe take a video, and you guys can tell me if the shake is normal. Either way, I want to try swapping the exhaust midpipe, and if it bolts up fine, take the down-pipes to a shop to have an additional o2 bung welded onto each pipe so I can wideband either side. I may also need new narrowband sensors - one seems to be more limited in voltage range.Will also install my new IAC that I've had sitting around for years. I am pretty sure I've had IAC-related issues in the past as well.Hopefully I can get every little detail sorted out, including new MAF housing/sensor, and new tunes for the EEC and transmission. Maybe also replace every ground wire with some higher quality connections, and larger wire.Now where did I put my old wideband gauge and DataQ unit... Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #36 – October 31, 2014, 01:18:54 PM I put stock mounts back in 9 years ago. My Chucky mounts were running late in transit. I received them about a week after I got everything back together. I figured I'd put the in when I snapped one of the stock mounts....... STILL WAITING......You KNOW if I didn't have the Chucky mounts laying around the stockers would have let go within a month.....QuoteMaybe also replace every ground wire with some higher quality connectionsTHIS. I replaced my grounds with one inch thick straps. Love them. That and I removed a few connectors in the charging system and hard wired the connections together. This alleviated a few issues that I had for a while..... Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #37 – October 31, 2014, 01:35:54 PM I completely forgot about using my thermal imaging camera to see the temperature differences between cylinders. That may help me figure out what's going on also. Even poor electrical connections will show heat buildup. Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #38 – October 31, 2014, 01:52:42 PM Quote from: V8Demon;440004THIS. I replaced my grounds with one inch thick straps. Love them. That and I removed a few connectors in the charging system and hard wired the connections together. This alleviated a few issues that I had for a while.....What do you think is the equivalent wire-gauge of your straps? Insulated wire appears generally more affordable due to greater supply. I figure 4awg soldered into tinned copper terminals should be plenty for any grounds. I may want to look for some of the terminals that typically come on ground straps though - seems they'd work better long-term.Keep the wire completely sealed away from the elements by using sufficient solder, and mechanically strengthened by both the solder and heatshink, it should last nearly forever.Edit:Supposedly 1" of a standard ground strap is around 3awg wire in cross sectional area. No idea on thickness of the straps, but this seems to be a good, general equivalence. Not insanely large like the 1/0 stuff I have in my car right now, but I will be downsizing everything to 4awg eventually. 4awg ground wires are perfect. Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #39 – October 31, 2014, 03:27:04 PM Quote from: Seek;440001I assume you mean stock replacement, but solid rubber? Stock mounts to me means hydraulic.Yep stock replacement solid rubber mounts. Used these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ani-2661sr/overview/year/1987/make/ford/model/thunderbird Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #40 – October 31, 2014, 04:12:15 PM I still wouldn't swap them out - Chuck's mounts provide so much more clearance!This weekend I'm also going to look for some plastic tubes - I want to try an injector cycle test and see how consistent my injectors are. I can also test my old 24lbers. The more information one has, the better they can make educated decisions!Edit:Hobby stores have glass test tubes. I am going to pick some up. I will also test my old 24lb injectors to see if a single one was running me lean. Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #41 – November 01, 2014, 12:51:38 AM I'll grab a video clip tomorrow to show that the motor doesn't "move", but it vibrates the chassis.The headers appeared to be heating up evenly, up until the max temperature of the thermal imaging camera. I would need to use an IR thermometer to test further:No issues seen with the heatup cycle. Exhaust and cats warm up fine also.I have some test tubes now. A little tape and they should work for testing injector flow at crank. Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #42 – November 01, 2014, 02:54:41 PM I tried to catch the slight-miss heard from the exhaust, but it is quite difficult to hear through the mic. Either way, this video shows the hood vibrating, the cause of rattling in the video (broken cat), some mediocre-recorded exhaust noise, rough idle/unstable rpms and a weird gauge issue when returning to idle from 4k rpms. The datalogging does not show the rpm's hanging or bouncing back up, and I don't think I can hear it in the audio either.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqpOLwh36Tc Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #43 – November 01, 2014, 05:15:55 PM Well from the video your idle sounds just like my Mark VII. I don't hear a missing/popping sound. The hood vibration seems normal. You may have more vibration transmitted to the chassis because of the poly motor mounts vs rubber. Quote Selected
Time for some new ignition wires Reply #44 – November 01, 2014, 05:38:53 PM Quote from: thunderjet302;440054Well from the video your idle sounds just like my Mark VII. I don't hear a missing/popping sound. The hood vibration seems normal. You may have more vibration transmitted to the chassis because of the poly motor mounts vs rubber.At idle does the tack twitch that much/be felt when it happens? Just curious. It's smooth, then rough, then smooth, and so on. Pretty sure the computer should be able to keep it running smooth if ignition is consistent. The EEC commanding ~15 degrees of timing at idle is where it starts to suffer - not sure if it's the timing or the fact that the lower rpm will show inconsistencies more.Going to the store in a few to get some o2 bungs wended in to my new exhaust pipes. I had to grind the shifter cable bracket's lower mounting bolt off to get the exhaust to not hit. Second aftermarket midpipe that hit there, so I assume they all will. Fits well beside that little issue.Turns out I had longer o2 sensor wires on there before - will be returning my new short ones. The longer ones are SO much easier to connect/remove without dropping the transmission down. Quote Selected
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