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Topic: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help. (Read 4207 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #15 –
the injectors are the 19 lb'ers (orange).  Its a stock Mustang engine.

My TPS reads .76 volts closed and 4.42 volts wide open; there seems to be a smooth gradual increase in voltage.

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #16 –
its prolly unrelated to the mass air then. Check your egr. Try cleaning it out just in case. Also it could be the timing, although I would bet that you would have checked that. It could very easily be the fuel pump. Is it new or did you change it out?
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #17 –
The fuel pump is whatever was in the 87 Turbocoupe gas tank that I put under the car.  That TC had 190,000 miles on it, so for all I know this could be the original pump.

Since the self tests never gave me any indication about any sensors being bad, I feel like it may be a waste of my time to check any more of them out.  Tomorrow I'll go to the parts store and pick up a fuel pump and ignition module.....we'll see how it runs at that time.

Joe

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #18 –
Even if the pump sounds like it's boring a hole in the bottom of the tank, if the pressure is OK that ain't your problem...  I'd be suspecting a iginition problem...

I had a '86 5.0 Bird I bought at auction that ran like total ... After checking and/or subbing everything, I found it had approx 3 litres of orange drink in the gas tank. After washing the injectors out with water, replacing the fuel fiter and draining the tank it ran great.

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #19 –
Quote
My TPS reads .76 volts closed and 4.42 volts wide open
Last I heard, we shoot for about .98v at idle.
Death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

1988 5.0 Bird, mostly stock, partly not, now gone to T-Bird heaven.
1990 Volvo 740GL. 114 tire-shredding horsies, baby!

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #20 –
well here is how you check it. I can tell you the tps isnt you problem. Unhook it. It will run fine without it. So I bet it has nothing to do with it.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #21 –
Today I put the computer back in the SSP, and it ran just fine, so I know for sure that my computer is good.  I put the computer back in the T-bird and it ran py and smelled like gas out the tail pipe.  I checked timing:  it's at 9 degrees BTDC.  I hooked up the spout plug and the timing jumped up like it was supposed to.

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #22 –
with the mass air ecm are you still getting codes 41 and 91 ?

and which  ecm is it A9L, A9P or A3M?

check your P/M's i sent you a message


Nick
Quote
there's only about a half a dozen man made objects that are herd by the human ear below 40Hz,a pipe organ,thunder,the space shuttle lifting off,a jet airplane taking off or landing,a large canon,an atomic bomb ignited in your back yard and the heat wave afterward oh wait you would be dead so you would'nt hear it scratch that!,and maybe beating your hear against a wall less then 40 times a second..rap music is'nt one of them!thats 40-60Hz@100+db the moving air is under 40Hz

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #23 –
if or should I say when you figure out what the problem is let me know. I am having similar problems with my first cat.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #24 –
I swapped the distributors between the Mustang and the T-bird, and my bucking/jerking and backfiring issues are gone.  I still have a choppy idle though, something I didn't think I had before, and it still smells a bit rich running to me.  I'll drive it longer tomorrow to make sure I don't have any issues, and then I'll try the MAF conversion again.  So, it may have been a TFI module problem, and there may still be more to it.  I'll let you guys know tomorrow.

Joe

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #25 –
does the step by step SLAMEDCAT posted look correct to everyone?

Im just curious so i know if its a keeper or not.

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #26 –
The problem came back today.  This time I just pulled over on the side of the road, turned off the car, and unplugged the 02 harness (thanks for the idea Nick).  I started the car back up and it never had a problem.  I drove the car for probably ten minutes.  The idle quality came back too.  Now it runs and drives almost like it used to, it just a feels a tad lower on power than before (could be my imagination).

If driving around with the 02 harness disconnected solved my problems, I'm thinking that either that harness is srewed or the 02's have died an untimely death (only 2 months and 700 miles  :nono:).

While talking w/Nick last night about the 02 sensors, I mentioned that this factory 1988 V8 T-bird engine harness had 5 wires traveling to the 02 harness, but the 02 harness itself contained six wires.  The one wire that isn't hooked up from the factory is a ground wire (it looks tan in color) that I bolted to one of the cylinder heads.  Nick thought that might be one of the reasons the car started to run like , but I just hooked up the harness as it was from the 5.0 donor bird it came out of.  Is there any wiring change I was supposed to make to a factory v8 Bird/cougar harness to get the 02's hooked up properly? 

On the engine harness side, there are the two wires for the left and right 02 signal return, the black/green wire (power ground), the grey/yellow wire that's 12 volts hot in run (I think that's for the "heated" part), and the orange wire for 02 ground.  On the 02 harness side, there are those wires already mentioned, plus that one tanish ground wire.  All the wires match color for color in the connectors, so the tanish ground wire isn't connected to anything (no wire for it on engine harness side).  Is this what all the other V8 Bird harnesses look like?

Joe

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #27 –
Talking to Nick today, we agreed that the unused ground wire was just  the low oil sensor wire.  I guess if the car didn't come equipped with that option, ford would make it into a ground wire...go figure.  At least my 02 harness checked out okay.

Today I bought a couple new 02 sensors, cap, rotor, plugs, coil, and fuel filter.  I just pulled the plugs and noticed that plug #2 had a cracked insulator.  All of the plugs were very white.... scary white.  I seriously hope the engine wasn't hurt after these 700 miles.  I don't understand, the engine felt strong, and only ever acted lean during that small spot at 1400 rpm.  I'm definately doing the mass air conversion to hopefully rid myself of this problem.  I'm also ordering a new fuel pump before I run it again.

Joe

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #28 –
I don't know what the unused tan wire is, but the '88 EVTM showes the low oil indicator to be DB/LG in connector C2001. The o2 sensor harness is connector C429, and there are five connections for their circuit. Colors are Orange, ground from the EEC, Grey/Yel 12v to heaters, Blk/Lt Green ground for heaters, DB/LG, LH o2 sensor(pin 43 EEC), and DG/P RH o2(pin 29 EEC).

Considering the info I had when I did the swap, guess I'm lucky lucky mine runs at all(not to mention I've never had any electrical issues with the EEC system). I used a '86 EVTM and '87 wiring diagram to swap a '87 5.0 harness into a '88 TC. My o2 sensor harness is from a '86 LSC with the smaller '87-up o2 plugs grafted
onto it.

EDIT... Note

I just looked at the the '86 EVTM and it shows six wires(again C429) with the addition of a GY/R wire feeding back to pin 44 of the EEC as the ground circuit for the left o2 sensor. Probably nothing to do with your problem, but interesting...

Re: Switched to mass air; have some problems, need help.

Reply #29 –
Nick was on Mitchell-on-Demand, and he also mentioned the gray/red wire for pin 44.  My 88 5.0 Bird harness does not have that wire at pin 44, despite what Mitchell was telling him.

Hopefully a 155 lph pump, new fuel filter, mass air conversion, 02's, and ignition parts will fix the lean problem.