Okay need help bad. Reply #15 – November 11, 2008, 11:09:17 AM Okay, no ground repair yet, but some readings to share:Battry voltage is 11.5 voltsWhen cranked, the voltage at the starter side of the solenoid is 6.5 volts, and slowly climbs to 8 or so peak as the key is held down.This voltage was the same at the starter itself and the bellhousing as a groundMy theory is that the starter has enough voltage to kick the bendix out, turn the gear, but not enough to keep the bendix extended all teh way, causing improper engagement on teh flywheeel.The power cable to the starter is great, no problems there. So what next? I think mabey the battery does not have enough ccas, or the ground is bad. Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #16 – November 11, 2008, 12:48:39 PM Your starter may just be getting weak or the solenoid on the starter is getting worn out. Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #17 – November 11, 2008, 02:03:19 PM No solenoid on the starter, its on the Fender like the Thunderbirds are. I'm leaning twards a solenoid, even though I've never seen one fail like this.When we gave the starter direct power from the battery, it sounded a bit stronger. Unfortunately, there is no real way to do that while the starter is in the car, since the starter is tucked in quite a bit. Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #18 – November 11, 2008, 02:41:47 PM Measure the voltage between the negative battery post and the engine block while cranking. See if that is where the rest of your "missing" voltage is. That would indicate that the battery cable is loose where it bolts to the block.11.5 volts is a little low. A fully charged battery should be 12.5 volts.What do you read across the battery while cranking? Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #19 – November 11, 2008, 02:56:13 PM Yeah 11.5 volts is garbage. Hell closer to 13 is honestly more accurate even. Charging voltage is something like 14 and change I believe. Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #20 – November 11, 2008, 03:36:56 PM Accross the battery while cranking was about .2 volt drop. The reading between the negative battery post and the starter side of the solenoid while cranking was 6.5 V, and would creep up to about 8 if i held the key. I'll have to try the block to negative post while cranking thing. Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #21 – November 11, 2008, 08:48:03 PM bad bendix in the starter?the one i had in the bird had chunks floating around in it and it sounded like that somtimes. Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #22 – November 12, 2008, 10:12:16 AM First I would look at does the starter actually fit.. not all fords have the same starter mounting position, size, etc. You say the starter came from a [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']88 B2[/font]And went into a [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']89 Bronco 2, 2.9L 5 speed, auto transfer case[/font] Transfer case is behind the tranny correct? So that’s irrelevant. However 5 speed to Auto may not work. In my 70 torino I had with a 4speed the starter from an V8 automatic set up did not fit.The close years 88-89 is promising.. but was the 88 an Auto tranny bronco? Been a while since I looked at or tore apart a ford starter but from what I recall the bendix is kind of a bogus little gear that doesn’t do much, as long as they spin freely they will work. Quite similar to a throwout bearing on a clutch. What moves it out is a electro magnet on the side of the starter (under that dome shaped cover) you slap the juice to it and it sucks the arm (equivalent to a clutch fork) down engaging the bendix into the flywheel. If this magnet isn’t doing it’s thing then the bendix is not engaging the flywheel. Since the starter was working in the 88 I assume the magnet is good and the wiring inside the starter activating it is good,,, did the starter sit around for a while between coming out of the 88 and going into the 89? Is it corroded and not getting good enough contact to hold the benix engaged? edit: On the Torino, I could swap the starters, but I needed to retain the nose cone of the starter from the Manual Transmission. Two long bolts that come from the back of the starter all the way through.. pull the nose off and swap them. Then the auto starter would work just fine. It’s the nose that aligns everything Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #23 – November 12, 2008, 10:55:02 AM Manual and Auto starters are the exact same parts for these trucks, I verified that with my own paper and online catalogs as well as my motorcraft dealer. I verified the PN off of the Old motorcraft starter I have, and it is correct for the truck. The 88 was a manual tranny truck just like this one is. I also talked to the origonal owner last night, the truck has NEVER been apart in that area..no clutch no nothing. He said that it was driving around fine, and the problem slowly started until he could not start it without a push. He swears up and down that it had to be the flywheel, but I've already verified that it is good, at least ring gear side.The bendix on this starter DOES kick out. We took the starter out, and grounded it on the frame. I kicked the key over, and it kicks out and spins. If you hold the key, it stays steady, and it doesnt drop off like a bad armature would cause it to. I also pulled the inspection cover off of the starter and cleaned every contact with emery paper. No improvement. Just a note, when we bench tested the starter off of the battery, (with jumper cables from the battery in the truck) it sounded a bit stronger than if we used the existing cable (verified good from the solenoid) and grounded it against the frame. The fact that the measured voltage from the negative battery post to the starter solenoid (the starter cable lug) was 6.5 volts bothers me. It should not have been much less than battery voltage, yet it was almost 5 volts lower.....this makes me think that there is a hell of a lot of resistance somewhere. Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #24 – November 12, 2008, 11:41:38 AM Still sounding like a ground issue. If anything crab a couple extra battery cables and make more grounds. I know when I added more grounds to my turbo coupe it started just a bit quicker. Might try that because of the way you test turned out. Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #25 – November 12, 2008, 11:51:09 AM Quote from: Birdman;242691The fact that the measured voltage from the negative battery post to the starter solenoid (the starter cable lug) was 6.5 volts bothers me. It should not have been much less than battery voltage, yet it was almost 5 volts lower.....this makes me think that there is a hell of a lot of resistance somewhere.If you have good voltage to the battery side of the solenoid(positive cable is good) and low voltage on the starter motor side it has to be a bad solenoid. Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #26 – November 12, 2008, 12:39:26 PM Pull the domed cover on the starter and check the clearance of the contact that opens, which is what actually starts the motor to run(It's suppose to engage then run)... If the air gap is too wide, bend contact till it has approx .050 clearance with drive manually extended(push on lever to extend drive)... Seen a couple of starters with this problem... Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #27 – November 12, 2008, 02:11:37 PM Quote from: softtouch;242697If you have good voltage to the battery side of the solenoid(positive cable is good) and low voltage on the starter motor side it has to be a bad solenoid.True. This could mean that the solenoid is bad (IE high resistance) OR it could mean that the starter is only able to grab the 6.5 volts because the ground is bad. If there is resistance, the amperage should go up, and the voltage should drop........I'm such an electronics NEWB:mullet: Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #28 – November 12, 2008, 02:15:43 PM Quote from: TurboCoupe50;242701Pull the domed cover on the starter and check the clearance of the contact that opens, which is what actually starts the motor to run(It's suppose to engage then run)... If the air gap is too wide, bend contact till it has approx .050 clearance with drive manually extended(push on lever to extend drive)... Seen a couple of starters with this problem...We had the inspection cover off, and it appears that the contact is right in the clearances you specify. That was one of the first thing we checked. We also cleaned all the contacts there with some electrical contact cleaner and emery paper. Quote Selected
Okay need help bad. Reply #29 – November 12, 2008, 02:54:05 PM Like said add a ground with jumper cables, also 11.5v across the battery is to low.to eliminate the selenoid take the ground off the battery,bolt the two battery cables from the selenoid together and see what happens when you touch the ground back on the battery.you can leave the key off for this so it won't start, if cranks you found your problem. Quote Selected
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