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Topic: Cobra engine vs Explorer engine (Read 3663 times) previous topic - next topic

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

So as I'm learning of all the varieties of 302's, it seems as though the best starting point from stock for power is the 94-95 Cobra, followed closely by the late 90's Explorer.  The Cobra realistically makes 260-280hp, while the Explorer is rated at 215hp.  The Explorer intake and heads are equal or better than the Cobras. 

The differences that would effect power are the cam, 1.7 rockers, and the exhaust headers.  Does it account for that much difference?

I understand the injectors, cam, crank sensors and coil packs are different.  None of that would account for the power difference.

Why is it that the Explorer engine is not a hotter pursuit for a drop in for our cars?  It seems that the Explorer engine would be a couple parts from 270hp.  Am I missing something?

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #1 –
exploder cam is made for low end. someone on the lincoln forum said it was a good drop in for more torque and thats it. I would think the difference in cam and the rockers would defiantly be that big of a difference.
RIP 1988 and 1990 Lincoln Mark VII LSC
I welcomed the dark side and currently am driving a 2000 Dodge Durango SLT plus, with a 5.9, Code named project "Night Runner"
Shes black on black, fully loaded, with headers, 180 tstat, e fan, straight exhaust into a cherry bomb vortex ler, full tune up, ported intake and T/B, MSD coil, and round aircleaner.
Mods to come: Fully rebuilt and heavily modded 46RE, and a richmond rachet locker.
my $300 beater ;)
R.I.P Kayleigh Raposa 12/18/90 - 2/24/07

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #2 –
Well one thing you are missing is the super restrictive stock headers on the Explorer/Mountaineer.  One company makes headers to fit the 5.0 Ex/Mounty.  They provide a 15hp/35ftlb gain... Dyno proven.. at the rear wheels!!!!!!!!  The stock setup is kind of scary too look at.  The Torque Monster headers for the Ex/Mounty also provide a 3mpg gain.  The cam is stupid small in a Ex/Mounty engine.  I have one of those cams in my garage as well as a stock HO cam.  Side by side you can actually see the differences.  The HO cam has a longer duration and a higher lift.  I guess the stock Ex/Mounty cam contributes to my truck idling so smooth you can't really tell its running.
One 88

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #3 –
Quote from: xjeffs;208305
The Explorer intake and heads are equal or better than the Cobras.

Not true...especially when running an HO cam.  Cobra has larger exhaust valve and slightly larger ports.  The intakes are very comparable...on a 320hp engine they are 2-4hp difference in different areas.  The HO cam has 10* more duration on the intake side...and with already restrictive exhaust ports, the Cobra(F3ZE) heads will make a little more power than the "P" heads.  Either way, both are good upgrades...I'll never spend money on "P" heads again, people can say what they will, but my F3ZE's friggin' rock...

Quote from: xjeffs;208305

I understand the injectors, cam, crank sensors and coil packs are different.  None of that would account for the power difference.

Yes, all of that would...the computers are programmed very differently...the Cobra is a performance vehicle...the Exploder is a luxo-suv(where a smooth idle is desired)....cams do make massive differences and that's where most of the power is going away on the Exploder.  Think of it this way...the '86 HO motor is a SO motor with a different cam and it only made 20 or 25hp less than the '87-'88 SD HO's.  SO was rated at 155 vs. the 200hp '86 HO...90% of that power came from the cam.


Claude made an excellent point about the ultra restrictive manifolds...I did a motor on a '96...I don't even know how exhaust makes its way through there...lol.
Project 3G: Grandpa Grocery Getter-'85 Crown Vic LTD 2-door, 351W with heavily ported/polished GT40 heads, heavily ported/polished Typhoon Power Plus upper & lower intake, Comp Cams 265DEH retarded 1*, FAST EZ-EFI, HD T5, 8.8" 3.73 trac lock with extra clutches, 3G alt. swap, '99 CVPI front brakes, '09 CVPI rear disc brakes, '00 CVPI booster&m/c + wilwood adj prop valve.

Parted & Gone-'88 T-bird Sport, 351W swap, ported GT40 heads
 

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #4 –
Quote from: CougarSE;208317
Well one thing you are missing is the super restrictive stock headers on the Explorer/Mountaineer.

I mentioned exhaust as being a difference.  Any restriction can have a huge impact.


Quote from: Sick88Tbird;208328
Not true...especially when running an HO cam.  Cobra has larger exhaust valve and slightly larger ports.  The intakes are very comparable...on a 320hp engine they are 2-4hp difference in different areas.

http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showpost.php?p=193552&postcount=7

Valve size is only part of the equation as these flow numbers show.  The P flows better.

Quote from: Sick88Tbird;208328
Yes, all of that would...the computers are programmed very differently...the Cobra is a performance vehicle...the Exploder is a luxo-suv(where a smooth idle is desired)....cams do make massive differences and that's where most of the power is going away on the Exploder.  Think of it this way...the '86 HO motor is a SO motor with a different cam and it only made 20 or 25hp less than the '87-'88 SD HO's.  SO was rated at 155 vs. the 200hp '86 HO...90% of that power came from the cam.

No it wouldn't.  Injectors, ECMs, coils and sensors are only control/support devices.  They are chosen based on supporting the engine's ability to efficiently flow air into and out of the combustion chamber, which (outside of increasing compression or boosting) is essential to producing power in an engine.  These are influenced by the cam, I-E manifolds, TB and heads and pipes.

You all have answered my first question and verified my suspicions.  Thanks.

My other question remains, if it is just a cam, headers, rockers and support electronics away, why isn't this a more popular swap?

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #5 –
let's say I have a 94 and up 5.8 roller block in a JY that I'm looking at, and a 302 from a later 90's Explorer in the JY, which is better to get?  Complete engines aside, would it be better to pull the P heads for the 5.8?  Would it be worth the wait to get the F3ZE's?  What cam would be more beneficial?  I'm asking only out of not knowing, not trying to be a smart a$$.  I'm thinking of going a different direction in motors with $4.00 a gallon looming overhead, but still want good power.
1987 TC

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #6 –
Quote from: xjeffs;208353

My other question remains, if it is just a cam, headers, rockers and support electronics away, why isn't this a more popular swap?


Ever thought about availability???

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #7 –
Well, believe what you want...I believe those numbers for the cobra and "P" heads are backwards.

I'll let you know when I get my car set up and run at least half a second faster than similar "P" headed combos.  If you don't like what people have to say, then don't bother asking.

And you VERIFIED my point about the ECM's with your "control/support" devices comment.

Real world experience surpasses letters on paper any day of the week.
Project 3G: Grandpa Grocery Getter-'85 Crown Vic LTD 2-door, 351W with heavily ported/polished GT40 heads, heavily ported/polished Typhoon Power Plus upper & lower intake, Comp Cams 265DEH retarded 1*, FAST EZ-EFI, HD T5, 8.8" 3.73 trac lock with extra clutches, 3G alt. swap, '99 CVPI front brakes, '09 CVPI rear disc brakes, '00 CVPI booster&m/c + wilwood adj prop valve.

Parted & Gone-'88 T-bird Sport, 351W swap, ported GT40 heads

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #8 –
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;208366
Ever thought about availability???

Exactly, the explorer engine is more available than the Cobra.  As are the upgrade parts.

Are the throttle bodies the same size?

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #9 –
Good info on GT40P vs GT40 heads here: http://stangpro.com/html/articles/gt40p_files/gt40p1.htm

A good combo for better than stock HO power for cheap is a GT40P Explorer long block, stock HO cam, Gt40 style intake, 65mm TB, GT40P headers and 2.5" dual exhaust. It should make some where between 260-270 hp. Plus it'll run fine with 19lb/hr injectors and SD if you're so inclined. Throw in a set of 3.73 gears in the back and have some fun :burnout:

If you have any questions about the swap or GT40P heads pm me. I have 'em and I'm very pleased with them :D
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #10 –
Explorers have poop exhaust headers, a 90* bend in the intake tract right after the TB and the cam that is made for low end. BTW the explorer engine needs lots of parts swapped off before it can be used in a fox body. Accessory drive system is completely different, oil pan, timing chain cover, EGR system, fuel rail valve covers, ignition system, oil pump and pickup, oil filter adapter, every sensor, motor mounts. Too much work unless you have a new replacement long block with none of the systems, but JY engine will have to be stripped down.

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #11 –
For what it's worth to anyone, when I first bought my car it had an Explorer long block in it. It had FMS shorties and 65mm TB. Car went 13.9 with 3.55's. Not awfully impressive, but a nice swap to run in the 13's.
Jim

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #12 –
Quote from: thunderjet302;208491
If you have any questions about the swap or GT40P heads pm me. I have 'em and I'm very pleased with them :D


:evilgrin:  Runs and sounds good toooo!!!  :evilgrin:

:burnout:                                      :burnout:


86' T/C 4.6L DOHC
16' Chebby Cruze 1.4L Turbo
17’ Peterbilt 389 600hp 1850ftlb Trq 18spd

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Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #13 –
That's all good info, but why don't you just run on the Explorer ECM, MAF with a 5 speed?  Then you can leave the ignition system and sensors alone.  Is it the compatibility with the dash?

Cobra engine vs Explorer engine

Reply #14 –
The Explorer has the EEC-V system.We use EEC IV.
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..