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Topic: Wonder what could have been... (Read 8162 times) previous topic - next topic

Wonder what could have been...

Just sitting around, going totally shackwacky with this God-ed cold weather, and thinking. Yes, I know, I should stop before I hurt myself.

Anyway, I've been wondering what may have been - more specifically, what would have happened had Ford continued developing the Windsor engines instead of going modular? Would we have seen aluminum blocks, like GM's LSx? How about split port heads? They worked pretty good on the ol' Esshag, almost bringing the V6 up to 5.0 power levels. What would have happened had Ford developed split port heads for the Windsor, or even had they done like GM and developed an all-new engine with aluminum blocks but retaining pushrods?

I used to deride GM for sticking with pushrod engines while Ford and Chrysler joined the rest of the world with overhead cams (and then Chrysler did an about-face with the Hemi). I used to thing of them as primitive. Ten years of LSX engines have changed my mind. The LSX engines are powerful, compact, lightweight, and modern while still being simple. A single cam in the engine block makes things like cylinder deactivation and even variable valve timing that much simpler to apply. Mopar has even come up with a way of doing VVT by using a camshaft inside a camshaft.

The Ford Modular engines exhibit very few of the so-called advantages that an OHC engine is supposed to have over an OHV engine. They're huge, they're heavy, they don't rev, and without supercharging they're not particularly powerful. Even the name of the engine - MODULAR - is misleading. Modular implies that the engine belongs to a family of engines that share a good deal of interchangeable components, or "modules". Didn't happen. There was no modular V6. There was no modular I-4. Instead there was a short deck V8, a tall deck V8, and a tall deck V10. Heck, even within the modular engine family there's a lot of divergence on what should be standardized parts - 2V heads, 3V heads, 4V heads, PI heads, different timing covers and valve covers, etc. The so-called "modular" engine introduced a whole lot of complexity and higher cost with very little, if any, return.

A few years ago I'd heard a rumour that Ford was going to return to pushrods with the hurricane engine. The boss 302 racing block fueled those rumours even further. I knew it wasn't true because Ford wouldn't look "back".

I'm now wondering if they really were looking ahead with the modular.

So what does this have to do with fox T-Birds and Cougars?

Well, right now, if you want to install a modern Ford V8 into your beloved ride you've got to replace your K-member and wedge a fat, heavy 4.6 in that won't make as much power as a 5.0 with a decent set of heads and intake. Imagine instead being able to go to a police auction and buying a 5.0-liter all-aluminum V8 with split port heads belting out 300-350 horses wrapped in a decommissioned old early 2000's Crown Vic and swapping that drivetrain into your car. No new K-member required, and if Ford would have done it right (we're taking dream scenario here) you could even bolt up your existing tranny. No extra weight over the front axle (in fact it'd be lighter than your existing iron 5.0). No ridiculously underpowered (in stock form) results for your efforts.

In other words, you'd be able to do exactly what GM guys can do right now. In fact, in my opinion it'd make more sense right now to swap an LS1 into a T-Bird than it would to swap a modular in. By abandoning the small block and replacing it with something bigger, more expensive, more expensive to modify, and that makes less power, Ford handed the current and future "hot rodding" market, the one that was previously dominated by the SBC but which was just starting to accept the Windsor, back to Chevy.

Yeah, I know... just dreamin'...
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣
 

Wonder what could have been...

Reply #1 –
Carm,

I've been preaching this forever. The whole Romeo/Windsor modular throws an even bigger wrench into the mix with the non-standard heads, timing components, etc.

The mod motor is a dog, and yes I have grounds to say that, I drive a "260HP P.I. 2V SOHC" and it barely keeps up with an LT1 Impala from 7 years before it! It saddens me as to the potential the CVPI might have had with a "real" engine in it's place. There's quite a few guys on CVN (CrownVic.Net, basically the FTBCF for Panther cars) swapping 351's into their 00-07 CV's.

The fact that it's easier to swap an LS1/T56 into a 87-88 TC over any mod motor is ridiculous. (So ridiculous John and I are doing just that). Not to mention 100 more HP then a mod motor, STOCK!

If only...



As a note, the "Hurricane" was reported to be pushrod. MM&FF even had pics of the "prototype" in a Pro 5.0 racecar and called it as such (looked pushrod to me, it was narrow compared to a 4.6). Now they're saying it's SOHC/DOHC but the "spy pics" are just a regular mod motor?

Wonder what could have been...

Reply #2 –
 Carm, now you have me pissed off(at Ford), course I usually stay that way...

Michael ...

I tried to join you in the PI... Was unmarked dark blue 2000 CV at the auction last Sat... Was real decent(dirty inside as usual) with 110K mi, but was marked bad rear end on the windshield... Told my buddy to go up to $1350(including bidders fee), sold for a $200 more... I probably should have had him GO for it... Had a new engine installed at 77K mi...

Wonder what could have been...

Reply #3 –
You want a 2001 or newer, the 2000's don't have the "Performance Improved" PI motor. I paid $2450 for a 2001 with full department history, no accident's, and 120000 on the clock, even had brand new cop-spec tires.

Wonder what could have been...

Reply #4 –
ford -1 chevy +1

sleeper for putting a chebby in his bird +1

;)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1974 maverick lsx powered turbo car SOLD
1973 maverick Tijuana Taxi Tribute
1957 chevy LSX Turbo project (race car)
Owner of Joe Dirt Fabrication

Wonder what could have been...

Reply #5 –
When you going to pull the SBC for an LS1? ;)

Wonder what could have been...

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;199168
When you going to pull the SBC for an LS1? ;)



im not lol they will have to get a bunch cheaper for me to even consider one.

Gotta love these cheap parts :D
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1974 maverick lsx powered turbo car SOLD
1973 maverick Tijuana Taxi Tribute
1957 chevy LSX Turbo project (race car)
Owner of Joe Dirt Fabrication

Wonder what could have been...

Reply #7 –
OHC is older technology than Pushrods. I wouldn't take a MOD for my T-bird if it was given to me........ I wouldn't swap to a 302 either, but you know what I mean. They never were that impressive, are huge and heavy, and do not sound good at all. I've driven two MODs now, and they felt and sounded like big V6's. V6's are nasty!

Preach on, Preacher man!

Wonder what could have been...

Reply #8 –
I dunno, starting to find complete LS1/T56's with wiring and guarantee's to run for under $2000 delivered! Found a couple of totaled LS1 f-bodies around here for under $2K for the whole car. Sell the wheels, interior, and any undamaged body parts you might even break under $1000 total investment.

Wonder what could have been...

Reply #9 –
Quote from: oldraven;199172
OHC is older technology than Pushrods. I wouldn't take a MOD for my T-bird if it was given to me........ I wouldn't swap to a 302 either, but you know what I mean. They never were that impressive, are huge and heavy, and do not sound good at all. I've driven two MODs now, and they felt and sounded like big V6's. V6's are nasty!

Preach on, Preacher man!


what are you talking about? since when do the 4.6l sound like a 6?
RIP 1988 and 1990 Lincoln Mark VII LSC
I welcomed the dark side and currently am driving a 2000 Dodge Durango SLT plus, with a 5.9, Code named project "Night Runner"
Shes black on black, fully loaded, with headers, 180 tstat, e fan, straight exhaust into a cherry bomb vortex ler, full tune up, ported intake and T/B, MSD coil, and round aircleaner.
Mods to come: Fully rebuilt and heavily modded 46RE, and a richmond rachet locker.
my $300 beater ;)
R.I.P Kayleigh Raposa 12/18/90 - 2/24/07

Wonder what could have been...

Reply #11 –
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_sdo1ayd1xg
that sounds good
RIP 1988 and 1990 Lincoln Mark VII LSC
I welcomed the dark side and currently am driving a 2000 Dodge Durango SLT plus, with a 5.9, Code named project "Night Runner"
Shes black on black, fully loaded, with headers, 180 tstat, e fan, straight exhaust into a cherry bomb vortex ler, full tune up, ported intake and T/B, MSD coil, and round aircleaner.
Mods to come: Fully rebuilt and heavily modded 46RE, and a richmond rachet locker.
my $300 beater ;)
R.I.P Kayleigh Raposa 12/18/90 - 2/24/07

Wonder what could have been...

Reply #12 –
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dksY9mZ10wU&feature=related
doesnt sound like a 6 to me?
RIP 1988 and 1990 Lincoln Mark VII LSC
I welcomed the dark side and currently am driving a 2000 Dodge Durango SLT plus, with a 5.9, Code named project "Night Runner"
Shes black on black, fully loaded, with headers, 180 tstat, e fan, straight exhaust into a cherry bomb vortex ler, full tune up, ported intake and T/B, MSD coil, and round aircleaner.
Mods to come: Fully rebuilt and heavily modded 46RE, and a richmond rachet locker.
my $300 beater ;)
R.I.P Kayleigh Raposa 12/18/90 - 2/24/07

Wonder what could have been...

Reply #14 –
lol let me get in on this video posting

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MNavxrnYZFU
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1974 maverick lsx powered turbo car SOLD
1973 maverick Tijuana Taxi Tribute
1957 chevy LSX Turbo project (race car)
Owner of Joe Dirt Fabrication