Mass Air Upgrade: Final Update pg2...

Topic: Mass Air Upgrade: Final Update pg2... (Read 4865 times) previous topic - next topic

Final Update

Reply #15 – January 12, 2008, 05:41:14 PM

Ok, I got to thinking that maybe I did something wrong after reading the posts (here and elsewhere) where it worked fine after removing the center bar. So I took another look at it and realized I never removed the backing plate after cutting out the bar. I removed the plate so the sample tube would flow straight through and it did work fine. Idle is normal and I'm pulling 17" of vac. The car runs very strong full and part throttle. There are no issues at all.

Sorry for the bad info. It will work great both ways. Just dont forget to remove the backing plate on the center bar.

I'm guessing that the problem was that air was not flowing through the sample tube with the back plate in place causing it to back up in the sample tube and send an eroneous voltage to the EEC.

Mass Air Upgrade: Final Update pg2...

Reply #16 – January 12, 2008, 09:38:10 PM

I'd be interested in seeing A/F ratio curves...

Bet You'd be in for a big surprise...

Mass Air Upgrade: Final Update pg2...

Reply #17 – January 31, 2008, 10:39:34 PM

Quote from: TurboCoupe50;197419

I'd be interested in seeing A/F ratio curves...

Bet You'd be in for a big surprise...

Agreed. Got any pics of your final version of this to show it with the plate removed?

Mass Air Upgrade: Final Update pg2...

Reply #18 – January 31, 2008, 11:30:21 PM

I did one of them meters back in the day, it ran like with the meter that I cut and grinded down the post.

Than I bought a pro-m mass air meter and car ran great. I used a 75mm pro-m with both the 19# and 24# injectors combos and was always happy with them.

My opinion is the words "cheap" and "mass air" shouldn't be in the same sentence, just buy a good used meter for about $100 and be done with it. I bought my last two pro-m meters on ebay for $100 each and always was able to re-sell them for $100 when I upgraded.

Mass Air Upgrade: Final Update pg2...

Reply #19 – May 16, 2008, 04:27:05 PM

Holy back from the dead Bat Man! :D

I have access to a couple of these units from 92-94 Crown Vics. If I transfered over my 55mm maf unit's electronics, and, with out cutting out the center bar it should work fine and give me a bit of a hp improvement correct?

Mass Air Upgrade: Final Update pg2...

Reply #20 – May 16, 2008, 05:12:06 PM

Quote from: Bob;201304

Than I bought a pro-m mass air meter and car ran great.

Pro-M or PMAS as they are now called sucks ass! I had a 80mm blowthru meter from them ($300) calibrated and even chipped the ECU and my car ran like . Not to mention there tech support sucked. Hmm... reminds me of Procharger

Went back to a C&L meter with the chip (tuned by 5.8FASTCAT)
and the car runs like an animal

Mass Air Upgrade: Final Update pg2...

Reply #21 – July 22, 2008, 09:36:41 AM

So when one does this swap (stock 89-93 55mm MAF for 94-95 70mm MAF) do the electronics have to be swapped? IE do you just use the 70mm MAF as is or do you have to swap the 55mm MAF electronics over to it?

Mass Air Upgrade: Final Update pg2...

Reply #22 – July 22, 2008, 12:29:07 PM

Ah some more fun with pics. I took pics of a 70mm 94-95 Mustang MAF vs a 93 Cobra/T-bird SC/94-95 T-bird LX housing. I'm going to try to run the 94-95 Mustang housing with the 55mm electronics swapped in first and if it runs good I'm going to try the T-bird housing with the 55mm electronics swapped in to see how it does. Should be fun :hick:

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Reply #23 – July 22, 2008, 01:30:06 PM

Quote from: blownbirds;219299

Pro-M or PMAS as they are now called sucks ass! I had a 80mm blowthru meter from them ($300) calibrated and even chipped the ECU and my car ran like . Not to mention there tech support sucked. Hmm... reminds me of Procharger

Went back to a C&L meter with the chip (tuned by 5.8FASTCAT)
and the car runs like an animal

Yeah alot has happened to them, check this thread out

http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=625408&highlight=pro-m

Mass Air Upgrade: Final Update pg2...

Reply #24 – July 23, 2008, 04:19:53 PM

Ok so I'm now running a 70mm MAF :D . I'm using a F2VF sensor and housing from a 94 Crown Vic Interceptor (same as a 94-95 Mustang MAF) with the ground down. I tried the 70mm MAF from my 95 T-bird first (the MAF I used in the comparison pics) with the F2VF electronics from the Vic MAF (since the stock 55mm MAF electronics will lean out in a 70mm factory MAF housing) and it ran like poo. Turns out the T-bird 70mm MAF has a slightly longer *sampling tube* which the F2VF sensor doesn't like. The car feels stronger in street driving (so the 55mm MAF must have been restricting power somewhat) but I still have to take it to the stip to see if I picked up anything. So if you have a MAF converted car that's still running 19 lb injectors this is a cheap (I spent $30 for a complete MAF and one extra housing incase I screwed one up grinding

) upgrade for a slightly bigger MAF. I'm the second person here to do it and yes it does work.

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Reply #25 – July 23, 2008, 06:53:26 PM

By I assume you mean where it would mount up if it were used in a 94-95 'Stang setup.

What's the difference in length on the sampling tubes?

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Reply #26 – July 23, 2008, 09:14:18 PM

Quote from: V8Demon;228716

By I assume you mean where it would mount up if it were used in a 94-95 'Stang setup.

What's the difference in length on the sampling tubes?

Yep by I mean where the front of the meter was bolted to the stock air box. I just cut it off with a hack saw and ground it down on a bench grinder so it was round and fit in the factory air tube.

The *sampling tube* on the 94-95 T-bird MAF is about 1/3-1/2 inch longer. The bores on both meters are the same but the extra length of the tube probably changes the signal that the F2VF sensor is expecting. I would *probably* work if the sample tube was cut down to match the 94-95 Mustang housing (easy to do with a Dremel) but since I was trying the housing off my 95 I didn't do it. It would have cost me $4 to get another housing from the junk yard so I just used the Mustang/Crown Vic housing since I had 2 sitting around.

I wouldn't say "It gained me 1000hp omg its the best ever" but it did pick up something. I would say power output is close to what it was with the 55mm MAF (it might have gained a whole 3-4 hp) but the biggest improvement is in throttle response. The car responds better to throttle inputs than it did before. It also seems to rev a bit quicker and does feel like it's breathing a bit better over 4000 rpms.

BTW how do you like the C&L meter you're using? After a discussion on sbftech.com I'm considering going with a 73mm C&L MAF and 24lb injectors next year as I'm pretty close to maxing out the 19lb injectors at full throttle. I know I could increase the fuel pressure with a AFPR but it's considered a band aid and something that shouldn't be done by Joel over on that board. I trust Joel as he seems to really, really know the EEC system like the back of his hand.

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Reply #27 – July 23, 2008, 10:13:30 PM

Quote

After a discussion on sbftech.com I'm considering going with a 73mm C&L MAF and 24lb injectors

Link to the discussion?

Band aid? Meh. That depends. If you are above the adaptive limitations of the ECU with your setup and only need 4-12 PSI more than stock and have enough pump than IMHO it's fine to turn up the pressure.

FWIW I like my C&L.

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Reply #28 – July 23, 2008, 10:59:47 PM

Quote from: V8Demon;228752

Link to the discussion?

Band aid? Meh. That depends. If you are above the adaptive limitations of the ECU with your setup and only need 4-12 PSI more than stock and have enough pump than IMHO it's fine to turn up the pressure.

FWIW I like my C&L.

Linkey: http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,14647.0.html

I do have a big enough pump (155lph) but this is the thread that I found with some good info on AFPRs: http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,3998.0.html Basically if you turn up the pressure the EEC adapts to it after a bit and you end up with the same problem again.

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Reply #29 – July 23, 2008, 11:51:53 PM

Quote

Basically if you turn up the pressure the EEC adapts to it after a bit and you end up with the same problem again.

If THAT happens you didn't need the increase in pressure to begin with. You turn up the pressure when your car has gone beyond the adaptive capabilities of the ECU.

If you've went beyond what the injectors can handle @ 100% duty cycle @ a certain pressure you either

A: turn up the pressure
B: get bigger injectors & a different MAF/metering tube.

If it's a band aid then why do so many Mopar applications use 55 PSI from the factory on gas engines?

@ 40 PSI with the 19's my setup ran so lean it threw a code.
Bumped to 62 the code went away. Car went static @ WOT, but part throttle and idle were spot on. If the car had only needed 55 PSI I'd still be running 19's. I ran the car that way for over a year and the "problem" never came back.

P.S I'm not the only person to run 19's with a trick flow headed combo.