Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

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Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #15 – January 22, 2007, 01:30:50 PM

140ci 190hp = 1.36hp/ci in 1987

who cares if it has a turbo.

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #16 – January 22, 2007, 01:32:10 PM

140ci 2v turbo = 205HP = ~1.46HP/ci 1985.5 SVO

281ci 4v blower = 390HP = ~1.39HP/ci 2004 SVT

280ci Northstar Caddy 4v n/a = 320HP = ~1.14HP/ci
272ci Northstar Caddy 4v blower = 469HP = ~1.72HP/ci

I had completely forgotten about GM's 4.6L mod motor. The blown version is insane!

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #17 – January 22, 2007, 02:33:25 PM

First off comparing a pushrod engine to a OHC engine is like compairing apples to oranges.

5.0 = 275 ft.lb. torque @ 2000 rpm (not actual number)
4.6 = 270 ft.lb. torque @ 3500 rpm (not actual number)

Same thing with the HP ratings. It comes down to what do you want to do with your car. If you like that gut wrenching torque right off the line build a 5.0 if you like high rpm build a 4.6.

Neither one is a joke. At least Ford had the balls to step up to the plate and say we wanna be differnt and put a OHC in there flag ship Mustang. I havn't seen chevy do that.

No the chevy guys wanna complain that the 5.0 is old tech. How old is the 350?

Then the 4.6 comes out they start talking shiznit about how slow it is and this and that. I havn't seen chevy step up and try to think out side the box.

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #18 – January 22, 2007, 02:59:02 PM

Chevy think outside the box??? Have you ever seen an LS motor? It SINGLE-HANDEDLY brought V8's into the 21st Century! 340cfm+ heads, incredible strength, all-aluminum construction, smaller package then the traditional small-block! A FULLY dressed LSx motor weighs LESS then 450Lbs. About on par with a 2.3T. Think about that, you can have a 400+ci engine with 600+ n/a horsepower for less weight then 4-popper and fit in a smaller hole to boot. You want to talk trash compare this:

FORD 4.6 DOHC 32V N/A = 305HP@5800/320TQ@4200

GM 4.6 DOHC 32V N/A = 320HP@6400/315TQ@4400

FORD 4.6 DOHC 32V Blower = 390HP@6000/390TQ@3500

GM 4.4 DOHC 32V Blower = 469HP@6400/439TQ@3900 with .2L less

The Northstar will mop the floor with the Mod ANY day. I mean come on, innovation with the Mustang? Fox chassis from 79-04, still has a solid rear with a 3-link, weighs 4400Lbs, etc, etc. The 4th Gen aro had the LS motor, SIX speed manual, an awesome torque-arm rear suspension, and weighed about 3400-3600 Lbs. The GTO has the LS2, IRS that actually works, 6-Speed again, etc, etc. Mustangs STILL don't come with a power antenna (yep, my 20yr old TBird does). Mustang innovation is an oxymoron. The 05-07's MAYBE, but they're still playing catch up.

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #19 – January 22, 2007, 03:12:23 PM

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;125096

The 4th Gen aro had the LS motor, SIX speed manual, an awesome torque-arm rear suspension, and weighed about 3400-3600 Lbs.

I read that fully loaded camaros and trans-ams were around 4000 lbs.

Oh don't forget the awesome 7.5 rear they put under them too!

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #20 – January 22, 2007, 03:13:18 PM

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;125096

I mean come on, innovation with the Mustang? Fox chassis from 79-04, still has a solid rear with a 3-link, weighs 4400Lbs, etc, etc.

4-LINK..NOT 3-LINK

A 4400# Mustang? Not likely.

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #21 – January 22, 2007, 03:21:16 PM

When was the last time you heard a Chevy guy say:
Take a look at this. My Camaro has a DOHC 32v V8. NEVER

They see one engine PUSHROD. How long has the pushrod engine been around. Now compair that to OHC. The OHC is still in its infancy compared to the pushrod engine. All I'm saying is chevy doesn't want to take a chance. They know one thing pushrods make low end power where a normal everyday drive will use it.

I have one of both a 5.0 and a 4.6 each has its own use and is fun to drive. It says that the 4.6 SOHC was only 202hp. The 5.0 was only what 155hp?

I like the OHC because its fun to feel it push you into the seat when the rpms climb. But on the other hand the the pushrod is fun because it will lift the front end and carry it.

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #22 – January 22, 2007, 03:22:57 PM

Chuck, the 05-07's are a 3-link (according to the factory lit, I've never actually crawled under one) and the GT500 weighs 4400 Lbs. Check out the last 2 issues of MM&FF or the Jan 07 Hot Rod for that.

Red, the 10-Bolt rear in the 4th gen is comparable to the 8.8 in the Stang. Lots of fast blown Stangs step up to 9"s or Dana's just like the GMers. My 98 Z28 6Spd Ttop car weighed 3600 Lbs with a 1/4 tank and no driver. I'd imagine a 1LE or even a stripper one would be significantly less (no t-tops, no leather, etc). I'm not saying the 4th gen FBod was "revolutionary", but compared to the still-a-fox Stang at the time it was more advanced. The GTO blows any Stang out of the water.

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #23 – January 22, 2007, 03:30:42 PM

You didn't talk like you were discussing the new cars. Yes I know the 05+ are 3-link and yes I know they're heavier.

Also, the GT500 is not "typical".....

The F-Bodies are also "dead".

If you were comapring the F-bodies with the Mustangs counterparts of their era, then they weighed about the same....if not a little more depending.

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #24 – January 22, 2007, 03:34:14 PM

First OHC internal combustion gasoline automobile engine in production= 1912 Alfa. Yep, in it's infancy. Pontiac had OHC 6's in the early 60's (Remember the Tempest Sprint?). The "mod" motor came out in 1991, same with the GM Northstar. Read about some new technology here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#LS1

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #25 – January 22, 2007, 03:43:05 PM

Agreed Chuck. ANY fox-chassis Stang with decent power will destroy an f-bod. About the only thing the F had on the Fox as far as tech goes was the rear suspension. A 1LE equipped 4thGen will still outcorner just about anything. Get the weight out of the 05-07 and plunk some power down and the 3-link might hang. MM's new Watt's link kit will definately help. Weights are even though, a stock-style suspension hardtop 4thGen is within 100Lbs of a similar Notch Stang. Remember, all the body panels are plastic on the F's. Still comes down the engine though, Mustang's been lagging for awhile now. The last time aFord motor would beat down was the TPI era. LT1 and newer has been game over. I'd LOVE to see the Hurricane get slapped in the Stang though. Imagine, the 09 restyle, lose some weight, have a 400HP n/a Stang competeing with the LSx Camaros and Hemi Challengers. I just hope they all get diets, they're all sounding porky.

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #26 – January 22, 2007, 03:46:43 PM

I would LOVE to have a DOHC 4.6 TT! Maybe one day. *dreams*

Oh, we forgot one.

302HO 225HP = ~0.75hp/ci :D Nice!

I would put the the S.O. numbers up but that's too embarrassing, with the almighty LS-Series numbers up there. Seriously, we all know what the LS Series was touched by the hand of god. It shows just what old-tech pushrods are capable of doing. We also know that GM can't sell them in anything other than a Vette. We also know that you HATE the Mustang with a passion so what difference does it make if Ford triples the HP output?

BTW, why do you have a 2.3t? From the way it sounds, a 5.0/5.8 would be well suited for you. Just curious.

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #27 – January 22, 2007, 03:52:18 PM

gah! I'm slow. There's like 18 more posts since I started typing that. lol.

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #28 – January 22, 2007, 04:05:57 PM

I hate the Mustang because it's "establishment". There's actually quite a few Mustangs I like, and I'll even admit to owning one before (a refrigerator-white 86 4-Cyl with a 289 4/Bbl C4 combo and a 2.73 peg-leg 7.5 rear, ugh). I just can't stand that development on the Mustang moves sooooooo slowly. Look at how advanced the TBirds/Cougars got from 79-05 and how far the Stang got. See my point? And the 2.3, well, I don't know. It's got awesome HP/ci #s but that's about it. Maybe because I hate the 302 so much I keep it out of spite. If I had money I'd pay Chuck to build me a X-Flow Turbo I6 for it

. Maybe it's efficiency. I like efficient things, and the 2.3T has it in spades. 200HP stock out of 140ci on 1970's technology in a smallish package with reasonable weight. You sneeze a decent turbo at one and they routinely do 300rwhp.

Are "Mod-Motor Swaps" The new TREND

Reply #29 – January 22, 2007, 04:31:17 PM

Quote from: Red_LX;125088

FYI the new pushrod Ford engine is the "Hurricane" engine program. Supposed to be going into F-150's within the next couple years and rumored for the next gen mustang. I read that unlike the mod motors, the Hurricane's design allows displacements up to 7.0 liters.

Um.. The last I read, the Hurricane is going to be an OHC engine. The "BOSS 302" offered in the FMS catalogue has nothing in common with the (Hurricane-based) engine that will debut in the '08 or '09 Boss Mustang EXCEPT the number of cylinders and V arrangement.

As for the Northstar (one of my longtime favourite GM engines) it is very comparable to the 4V Mod engine, in size,weight, complexity and output - Michael, you conveniently forgot that the last Cobras (before the Terminator) were rated at 320 horses, identical to the Northstar's numbers. The three-valve Mod engine now generates 330 horses in the N/A Shelby/Hertz Mustangs.

You also forgot that the blown 4.4 Northstar is fitted into a $100k car (STS-V or SLR-V) while the blown Mod engine was fitted into a $35k Mustang, and that the Mustang engine was severely underrated (usually putting 390HP to the wheels in stock trim, which is closer to 450 at the flywheel). I've never seen a dyno of an STS-V so I don't know if it was underrated or not. Considering that you could buy three Terminator Cobras for the price of one STS-V I think the Mustang's 390 rated horses compares very well to the Northstar's 469.

Sadly, the Northstar is now on the chopping block anyway - it is a very expensive engine to manufacture and GM is looking to replace it. Should they take a step back and put a pushrod engine in its place BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and Infiniti will laugh all the way to the bank. I fully believe that much of the reason the CTS-V never fares well in comparison tests is its Chevy heart. Luxury buyers want bleeding edge, not leftover 1950's technology.

Strangely enough, mainstream buyers demand technology too, and GM is finally realizing this. The old pushrod 4-cyl engines are long gone, and the pushrod V6's are on their way out. Sooner or later the pushrod V8's will follow (except in trucks, where low speed, high torque engines are a selling feature)