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Topic: newbie needs some help (Read 3009 times) previous topic - next topic

starter circuit

Reply #15 –
I did the test as t.birdsc stated and the starter cranked. I did install a new solenoid and new neg cable to ground and positive cable to solenoid from the battery. With the test being done I assume the iginition switch is not getting power the solenoid all the time. Once in awhile it works okay but most times there is a problem.
Thanks for all the help!
JR

newbie needs some help

Reply #16 –
Yes, if the vehicle was definately acting up when you "hotwired" the relay as stated earlier and it did crank, then we know it is a problem with the feed going to the starter relay from the ignition switch/crank circut. Just to verify, it would be a good idea to see if it cranks normally with the key after you tried the "hotwire". If it still acts up and doesn't crank, we can diagnose that part of the circut then.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]88 t-bird: 5.0ho, gt40y, crane 2031, fms 1.7, paxton@5#, aod wide ratio, tci stall, performer rpm upper, 70mm bbk, pro m 60, 42#s, 3.73 7.5" posi, jba shorties, borla, upr x. 13.4 @ 104mph. cbaza, moates, tuned by decipha

newbie needs some help

Reply #17 –
Quote from: t.birdsc;165378
A few questions 1st if you don't mind?
From the factory:
Is the vehicle supercharged?
Is the vehicle an auto or stick?
Does the vehicle have abs?
Does the vehicle have theft deterent?
Are there any aftermarket devices on the vehicle?
QUOTE]
 
The answer to these questions can help also.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]88 t-bird: 5.0ho, gt40y, crane 2031, fms 1.7, paxton@5#, aod wide ratio, tci stall, performer rpm upper, 70mm bbk, pro m 60, 42#s, 3.73 7.5" posi, jba shorties, borla, upr x. 13.4 @ 104mph. cbaza, moates, tuned by decipha

newbie needs some help

Reply #18 –
It did not crank after the test with the key.

not supercharged
automatic transmission
has abs
no anti theft
no aftermarket devices

Problem with trigger wire on what side of neutral switch?

Reply #19 –
Quote from: fordthunderz92;166342
It did not crank after the test with the key.




I am assuming the r/lb wire was hooked back up to the relay when retested. If so, good, then we know your starting system is good and there is a problem in the trigger circut going to the relay.

What is very strange about the problem is the fact the engine won't crank unless you remove the ground wire. A good idea would be to pull codes from the eec and abs modules. If you can do this record the codes so we can see if any pertain to the starting system concern.
 Instead of backtracking the harness from the relay to the ignition switch, we will pick a halfway point which is the neutral safety switch.
 You may need a helper for this test and also a test light. Locate the neutral saftey switch which is on the left side of the transmission case around the manual shift lever. There will be the r/lb wire going into it from the ignition switch. This wire should be hot(12v) during crank. The best way to check it would be when the vehicle is acting up, ground the test light, unplug the neutral switch and probe this wire for 12volts while someone cranks the engine. If you have to do it yourself, back probe the connector with a small hat pin and use alligator clips to your test light. If this wire shows 12 volts, plug the connector back in and reverify the no crank with the key. If no crank with the key continues, check the w/pk wire coming out of the neutral switch for power with the connector plugged in, or jump the r/lb wire to the w/pk wire. IMPORTANT!!!! REMEMBER, if you decide to jump this connector make absolutely certain the vehicle is in park and the parking brake is on. I'd rather you back probe the w/pk wire but the choice is yours.
 This test will show us what side of the neutral saftey switch the feed problem is , or possibley a bad neutral switch. Neutral switches are notorious for being out of adjustment and often need replacement along with the connector. If you have power in crank across the neutral switch from the r/lb wire to the w/pk wire in neutral or park, then the neutral switch should be good. If that happens and the vehicle still won't crank, we know the problem is between the neutral switch and the relay. Or if there is no power to the r/lb wire in crank, the trigger problem would be on the ignition side of the neutral sw.
 Once you perform these tests, the results will allow us to diagnose further.
 
Hope this helps,
    Mike
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]88 t-bird: 5.0ho, gt40y, crane 2031, fms 1.7, paxton@5#, aod wide ratio, tci stall, performer rpm upper, 70mm bbk, pro m 60, 42#s, 3.73 7.5" posi, jba shorties, borla, upr x. 13.4 @ 104mph. cbaza, moates, tuned by decipha

newbie needs some help

Reply #20 –
This is just to wierd, I ran the test and no power to the neutral switch r/blue wire. I pulled the neg cable off for 5 seconds and reconnected, ran the test again and got power to the r/blue wire. I plugged it back to the switch and tried to start, nothing. Pulled the neg cable as always and the car started.

newbie needs some help

Reply #21 –
Quote from: fordthunderz92;166755
This is just to wierd, I ran the test and no power to the neutral switch r/blue wire. I pulled the neg cable off for 5 seconds and reconnected, ran the test again and got power to the r/blue wire. I plugged it back to the switch and tried to start, nothing. Pulled the neg cable as always and the car started.


 I agree it is very strange, but at least we know it is a feed problem on the ignition switch side of the neutral switch.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]88 t-bird: 5.0ho, gt40y, crane 2031, fms 1.7, paxton@5#, aod wide ratio, tci stall, performer rpm upper, 70mm bbk, pro m 60, 42#s, 3.73 7.5" posi, jba shorties, borla, upr x. 13.4 @ 104mph. cbaza, moates, tuned by decipha

newbie needs some help

Reply #22 –
Check and see if you have a feed from the ignition switch, at the ignition switch, on the r/lb wire during crank. I would back probe it 1st, if nothing then take the ignition switch connector off. I believe its either 9/32th's or 5/16th's, try to take that terminal/wire out of the connector. Plug the ignition switch connector back on and probe the terminal on the ignition switch, at the ignition switch terminal, for a feed during crank. Another alternative would be to cut the wire in half, if you make certain the cut is thoroughly repaired after you check the ignition switch side of the wire. The results will determine if your ignition switch is good or not.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]88 t-bird: 5.0ho, gt40y, crane 2031, fms 1.7, paxton@5#, aod wide ratio, tci stall, performer rpm upper, 70mm bbk, pro m 60, 42#s, 3.73 7.5" posi, jba shorties, borla, upr x. 13.4 @ 104mph. cbaza, moates, tuned by decipha

newbie needs some help

Reply #23 –
Quote from: fordthunderz92;166755
This is just to wierd, I ran the test and no power to the neutral switch r/blue wire.


I am assuming that the neutral saftey switch connector was unplugged when you did this test??
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]88 t-bird: 5.0ho, gt40y, crane 2031, fms 1.7, paxton@5#, aod wide ratio, tci stall, performer rpm upper, 70mm bbk, pro m 60, 42#s, 3.73 7.5" posi, jba shorties, borla, upr x. 13.4 @ 104mph. cbaza, moates, tuned by decipha

newbie needs some help

Reply #24 –
yes it was unplugged. Well I guess I'll go out and check the ignition switch. Thanks for the help!

newbie needs some help

Reply #25 –
Well now, after getting to the ignition switch, I learned that a prior owner had installed an aftermarket keyless remote system tucked up under the dash, needles to say that was the cause of the problem. For whatever reason the r/ltblu wire runs thru the remote system, which I assume is to auto lock the doors after start up. A simple jumper wire did the trick and the remote still locks and unlocks the doors.
Thanks Mike for all the feedback it was very helpful!
JR

newbie needs some help

Reply #26 –
Glad you found it!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]88 t-bird: 5.0ho, gt40y, crane 2031, fms 1.7, paxton@5#, aod wide ratio, tci stall, performer rpm upper, 70mm bbk, pro m 60, 42#s, 3.73 7.5" posi, jba shorties, borla, upr x. 13.4 @ 104mph. cbaza, moates, tuned by decipha

On 2nd thought...

Reply #27 –
Did the vehicle come with any remote fobs? OR. There might be a disarm switch or valet switch going to the aftermarket module. Some of the switches are to momentary grounds but ultimately depends on the system. It is possible that the system may be designed to "kill" the starter as an anti-theft device. Trace some of those wires and you may find something, however, if the unit is malfunctioning ,you may have done all you needed to do.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]88 t-bird: 5.0ho, gt40y, crane 2031, fms 1.7, paxton@5#, aod wide ratio, tci stall, performer rpm upper, 70mm bbk, pro m 60, 42#s, 3.73 7.5" posi, jba shorties, borla, upr x. 13.4 @ 104mph. cbaza, moates, tuned by decipha
 

newbie needs some help

Reply #28 –
The system has key fobs and I saw a terminal labeled disarm on the control box but there is no wire to it. The car seems to be fine and the starter works everytime with the key.