Will this make hybrids less attractive?

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Will this make hybrids less attractive?

January 11, 2006, 04:20:44 PM

http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jan06/384192.asp

Quote

For all vehicles, the EPA said its new testing methods would result in a 10% to 20% drop in fuel economy estimates in city driving, and a 5% to 15% decline in highway performance.

But for hybrids, which run off both a gasoline engine and an electric battery, city driving estimates could drop by 20% to 30%. The decline in their highway ratings would be 5% to 15%, the same as for regular cars.

Buyers are willingly paying thousands of dollars above the price of conventional vehicles, and waiting up to a year in the case of Toyota's most popular hybrid, the Prius, all in the belief that they yield much better gas mileage.

I looked into the GMC truck hybrid today, just out of curiosity.. and it only claims 10-12% improved efficiency over a standard truck. Not much to begin with. Doesn't this pretty much negate that? And if so, is there even a point to getting the hybrid? (is there even a point to getting it for the 10-12% improvement in the first place?)

So how do you see this impacting the whole hybrid thing? Dying like disco?

Will this make hybrids less attractive?

Reply #1 – January 11, 2006, 04:34:09 PM

I don't see it affecting Hybrids much - the actual fuel mileage the cars get isn't changing, only the way the EPA tests them is. They're changing their test methods to more accurately refelect how cars are actually driven. It's pretty much common knowledge that very few will ever get anywhere their EPA rated mileage when the car is driven normally (although I've consistently beat the EPA's 27MPG estimate for highway driving in my T-Bird, I come in well under the city estimate of 17 - I get about 12). I've heard several horror stories of people buying a car and complaining to the dealership that they don't get the advertised mileage. It's even worse here in Canada, where we have bigger gallons. Mileage figures will be on the window sticker in Liters/100km and MPG, and the MPG figures are generally very high because of those bigger gallons (42MPG rating for a V6 Camry, 52MPG for my sister's Neon, for instance)
.

As for the GM truck hybrids - they are not true hybrids, so they won't have the benefits of a true hybrid and you won't see any improvement at all at highway speeds. I beileve the electric motor in the truck is not actually capable of propelling, or even helping to propel, the truck, and there's no "regenerative braking" - it gets its claimed increase in economy by shutting the engine down at stop lights and such. It's basically just a big starter/alternator sandwiched between the engine and tranny. As you can imagine it would be of little use to anyone that doesn't do a lot of stop and go driving.

It does have one benefit to contractors, etc: It has a built in 2500-watt (I think - not sure of the wattage) 115V generator/inverter system. That would be neat to have, though it's an expensive toy...

Will this make hybrids less attractive?

Reply #2 – January 11, 2006, 04:50:38 PM

Hmmm.. 2500 watts? Expensive toy is right. Can get double that in a standalone generator for a few hundred bucks, I think. Not sure what we paid for our 5600/8600 peak right after the hurricane. I'd hate to think how much it would cost to work on that, too, once the warranty expired. Probably cheaper to just buy a standalone and throw it out when it s out, vs. having that repaired. *shrug*(I'm not serious about the "throwing out" part.. yes you could repair it)

So you don't think it'll have any impact at all, reducing the advertised mileage? Personally, I would hope it would set them back a little bit, perhaps just enough to nudge them into advancing on to diesel-electric hybrids like that Mercury concept vehicle that was posted on here a few days ago:

http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=6261 (end of thread)

Will this make hybrids less attractive?

Reply #3 – January 11, 2006, 06:02:05 PM

Since mileage figures will drop for just about every car I don't think it'll hurt much - it's kinda like SAE Net VS Gross horsepower back in the early 70's (except horsepower actually did drop, not just because of the new ratiing system).

As for the diesel-electric hybrid - a fantastic idea, but one that won't see the light of day without some significant advances in diesel technology in the next few years. I am unsure of the year, but sometime around 2007 or 8 diesel emissions standards in the USA are set to become so stringent that no current diesel engine meets them. They're working on particulate trapes, urea injection (yes, piss), and a bunch of other stuff but nothing is proving long-term reliable (particulate traps would have to be emptied or changed, and who's gonna stop at a gas station and buy two gallons of diesel and a quart of piss?)

There's a new engine technology that looks promising, though - a "diesel" engine that runs on gasoline. It's called an HCCI engine (Homogenous Charge Compression Ignition) and it literally runs on controlled detonation. Advances in direct fuel injection make it possible to inject gasoline into a hot air charge uniformly enough that it explodes from the heat but does so in a controlled manner. It's apparently extremely efficient because the engine runs very lean, but it has its drawbacks under certain conditions where a normal engine would do better.

I actually read an article recently about a hybrid-hybrid: An HCCI engine that runs as a regular Otto-cycle spark ignition engine when it's most efficient to do so, then switches to compression ignition (HCCI mode) when operating conditions are ideal, and also has batteries, regenerative braking, electroc motors, and all that "regular" hybrid stuff.

I don't think hybrids are done for - fuel is still expensive (still over a buck a liter here), dino-juice is eventually gonna dry up, and pure hydrogen or electric cars are a long time off yet...

Will this make hybrids less attractive?

Reply #4 – January 11, 2006, 06:05:38 PM

I have never really thought of getting a hybrid, personally the hybrids that are out at the moment excluding the ranger (Ford makes a Hybrid ranger right?). I think that most of the hybrids are ulgy as it is, therefore i would never buy one. As much as i hate to say it i would rather just find either some squatty little VW pos diesel like a golf and take the biodiesel route. (Bio diesel is a cheaper route in the long run, in my opinion )

Will this make hybrids less attractive?

Reply #5 – January 11, 2006, 06:50:48 PM

I don't know why people buy hybrids instead of diesels. Today's diesels dont smoke, start in the cold, are reliable as hell and get awesome mileage.