Doing the 'Bird suspension over, need advice from suspension gurus

Topic: Doing the 'Bird suspension over, need advice from suspension gurus (Read 1704 times) previous topic - next topic

Doing the 'Bird suspension over, need advice from suspension gurus

February 06, 2006, 09:26:50 PM

As the title suggests, I'm going over the complete suspension in the 'Bird. I'm doing this because I'm gonna be installing all the good stuff from the TC (rear end, front brakes, sway bars, 16" snowflakes) and while I'm doing it I want everything new and upgraded where possible. The 'Bird needs new ball joints as well (say what you want about factory sealed ball joints, but they lasted 18 years before getting noisey). IN short - everything that keeps the car off the ground is gonna be new.

So far I am definitely installing the following:

Turbo Coupe 8.8", 3.45 rear/disc brakes w/ rebuilt trac-loc
Turbo Coupe 11" front brakes
Turbo Coupe F & R sway bars
Turbo Coupe front control arms (I think they're the same as the non-TC ones but I need new ball joints, so I'll install 'em in these arms when they're removed from the parts car)
Turbo Coupe 16" snowflakes with 225/60VR16 Goodyear Eagle tires (off P71 cop car)
Turbo Coupe rack & peanut (I know it's the same as my car's, but the one in the TC is new)
CHE adjustable lower rears
CHE fixed uppers
Energy Suspension spring isolators (F & R)
Energy Suspension rack bushings (not offset)
Energy suspension sway bar brackes & bushings
Energy suspension sway bar end links
New struts & shocks (high quality stock replacements, not anything "racy")
New ball joints/tie rod ends
Energy suspension tranny mount
Chuck's motor mounts
Welded up torque boxes

Now for the things I'm unsure of:

Energy suspension front control arm bushings. I know they'll be stiffer and introduce a bunch of sharpness through the steering wheel, but how much stiffer? Will the car still be drivable? I can tolerate some extra stiffness but don't want it to feel like it's got no suspension at all. I also need some added durability, as apparently the ridiculous fuel taxes around here aren't enough to pave the roads every once in awhile. I don't mind taking a beating as long as the car will survive it.
Springs. I know the TC springs will lower the 5.0 car, but by how much? Given the shape of the roads around here, I can't afford to lose too much clearance (very high road crown = sed oil pan). Or would I be better off keeping the stock V8 springs? The car sits perfect with them (not sagging), and their softness may help offset some of the harshness in the new suspension components.
Subframe connectors. With all this added suspension stiffness, I reckon strengthening the backbone would be a good idea. I would definitely go with weld-in ones. I've heard a bunch of different opinions on whether Mustang oes will work. Any educated suggestions?
Strut tower brace. Same questions as the subframe connectors.

Any thoughts? Suggestions? Remember, this car is no longer a daily driver, it's finally become a toy (and an emergency backup vehicle for when the Volvo is in the shop). I will never do anything too extreme (maybe a TFS-headed 5.0 or 351 and a 5-speed, to a max of about 300-350 flywheel horses). It will likely NEVER see a drag strip (unless I happen to trip over one at some future Cat Jam appearance), it will never see slicks. The roads around here are very twisty, and I just want to help the car get through those corners a bit better... ok, a lot better.

Doing the 'Bird suspension over, need advice from suspension gurus

Reply #1 – February 06, 2006, 09:49:02 PM

I replied in the other thread, but poly control arm bushings can be harsh. Whether they are livable or not depends on you. I have them in both the TC and the 84 XR-7 and have driven both for a while with them installed. Both were daily drivers for a couple years after the install. I guess I just got used to it, but you DEFINITELY know they are there.

SFC's- A big yes. Esp if you plan on stiffening up the suspension. I have a cracked windshield in the 84 from not getting them installed in a timely manner after I stiffened up the suspension. When through an intersection..an angled one, with some definite wear ruts. I actually felt the chassis twist:barf: then heard a loud "POP!". THe next morning when I got in the car to head to work I was greeted with an 8" long crack in the windshield.
You really don't need Mustang ones as you can get away with strsight sections of tube instead of having to kink them like the Mustang ones are. If you want some with the supporst under the seats, you will need Tbird specific ones as they are different than from a Mustang.

STB - Mustang ones fit based on the engine in the car, and also make a noticable difference.

Doing the 'Bird suspension over, need advice from suspension gurus

Reply #2 – February 06, 2006, 09:49:30 PM

Quote from: Thunder Chicken

I just want to help the car get through those corners a bit better... ok, a lot better.

I read seemingly conflicting information about which bushings to buy. Stock Rubber A-Arm bushings on my nearly 20 yr old 87 tbird really improved drivability. I seem to understand from reading about the Hi-Perf bushings that you pay a steep price in comfort and that they work great on smooth pavement but tend to bounce you off if the road is bumpy. I would like to hear from someone who knows how dramatic is the difference.

Doing the 'Bird suspension over, need advice from suspension gurus

Reply #3 – February 07, 2006, 06:13:22 PM

I could probably make my own SFC's, as I am somewhat good at welding (I wouldn't try to weld a bridge together but I built a trailer so I'm sure I could handle a piece of tube).

So now I'm leery about the front control arm bushings. Would it be detrimental to install the CHE rears with their poly bushings and retain stock (but new) front bushings?

Also, I'm wondering how all this would work with stock replacement struts & shocks, as well as either my stock V8 springs or the TC springs - I have absolutely no interest in lowering the car. I also don't want an autocross machine, but I do want to stop sing the chrome off the door handles from the body roll every time I bend the thing into a turn, and I want to stop wallowing over bumps. If I wanted a ride like this thing's got I'd buy a 200,000 mile Crown Vic...

Doing the 'Bird suspension over, need advice from suspension gurus

Reply #4 – February 07, 2006, 06:24:22 PM

Just curious, have you considered picking up Prothane components instead of Energy Suspension?

Doing the 'Bird suspension over, need advice from suspension gurus

Reply #5 – February 07, 2006, 07:08:35 PM

I'm nitpicking here but don't you mean a Turbo Coupe 3.55 rear?

Anyway, about the subframe connectors- if you go to 40bob.com, he sells subframe connectors on there specifically for the Thunderbird (a guy on turboford makes em) for $65 shipped which you really can't beat. They come with several reinforcing plates too which most cheap subframe connectors do not have. I got a set and they are pretty nice.

And for the strut tower brace, might I suggest Maximum Motorsports? $130, and that thing is STOUT to say the least.

Also, if I might suggest it- since you're going with the polyurethane tranny mount, it might be worth your while to throw in some poly crossmember bushings too (they're only like $15-20)

Doing the 'Bird suspension over, need advice from suspension gurus

Reply #6 – February 07, 2006, 08:52:04 PM

Quote from: Red_LX

I'm nitpicking here but don't you mean a Turbo Coupe 3.55 rear?

Whatever it is - I just know it's not the 3.73 one :D

Quote

Anyway, about the subframe connectors- if you go to 40bob.com, he sells subframe connectors on there specifically for the Thunderbird (a guy on turboford makes em) for $65 shipped which you really can't beat. They come with several reinforcing plates too which most cheap subframe connectors do not have. I got a set and they are pretty nice.

Definitely worth looking into, though I imagine the price to Canada would be higher

Quote

And for the strut tower brace, might I suggest Maximum Motorsports? $130, and that thing is STOUT to say the least.

Again, good idea

Quote

Also, if I might suggest it- since you're going with the polyurethane tranny mount, it might be worth your while to throw in some poly crossmember bushings too (they're only like $15-20)

I hadn't even thought of that. I'll be doing a 5-speed swap as well, so I guess that would be a good addition to the project

Quote from: nirvanagod

Just curious, have you considered picking up Prothane components instead of Energy Suspension?

Mainly for the one-stop shopping thing. I'm ordering a bunch of stuff from CHE, and they stock ES stuff. The more I get from one spot, the more I can spend on actual stuff and not the shipping of said stuff.