multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

Topic: multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's (Read 2303 times) previous topic - next topic

multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

February 10, 2012, 12:11:28 PM

So I was reading over CoolCats earlier and reading about the stock brakes, I noticed that Eric's said that some 88 v6 cars came with 10" drums in the rear. I never gave it much thought before, thinking that since my car came v6 and completely optionless, that I surely had the 9"s out back. I went to check it out just for kick's and what do you know, I do have 10"s.

Now part of the reason I've been trying to find a decent TC rear was too ditch the wimpy 9" drums and get some stopping power. And then of course the fact that discs are easier to work on later and of course for the Trac-Loc. Now that I realize I have 10" drums, my question is - does it really make a noticeable difference between the 10" drum brakes and the 10" disc brakes? Because if not I could just swap the differential and get my trac-loc and save a lot of money and time trying to find a whole unit and bother with the brake lines etc etc etc....

And second part that's puzzling me is suspension quirks. My rear end has a lot of lateral movement. If I stand on either side of the car by the trunk or next to the rear windows, or anywhere in between, I can rock the car back and forth a lot. And I don't mean roll the body back and forth, I mean lateral movement of the whole car side to side. Is this a normal function of the stock control arms to have this much movement? If so then CHE's are DEFINITELY in my future.

I also have a lot of play in my rear end. And what I mean by that is if I'm under the car and the trans is in P or N, I can rotate the driveshaft a lot. Like a quarter of a turn. I've always assumed this is normal because auto cars I've had in the past have a little bit of forward/backward movement when in P but I thought that was the parking gear in the transmission that was the culprit for that. What I'm saying is, is it normal to have that much play in my diff?

And then the next thing is that when switching from D to R or vice versa, I occasionally get a ding in my rear axle that sounds literally like someone tapping a bell. I can also get it to do it if I rock the rear end of the car when it's parked. Why does it do that, and is it something that I really need to fix before my axle falls apart?

Another thing that bothers me is that when going over bumps/potholes I get small clunks and rattles from what sounds like any wheel that hits it. Not serious sounding problems, but the kind that make people riding in your car think its nothing more than a 23 year old jalopy from the 80's. I've checked all the bushings and things that I know about but still cannot find the culprits. I know a few years back when I replaced my rotten/non-existent sway bar end link bushings it made a big difference not to have those washers rattling around but I've stiil got some problems somewhere.

Another thing is that if I jack the front end up high enough to get the tires off the ground if I shake the tires along the horizontal axis, (hands on top and bottom) I can get them to wiggle a little bit. Not a whole scary lot, but juuuuust enough to get them to click. Is this a symptom of having old worn out struts, or something I should be more concerned about, like bad ball joints? I also get a LOT of side to side movement on my DS wheel, when I do the same thing along the vertical axis. I can see the tie rod move with the wheel though so my guess is that I need to replace the tie rods. This is most likely why my alignment is such a problem. I think however, after seeing the prices on RockAuto I'm just going to replace the whole rack with the 15:1, tie rods', and do the 11" brake upgrade all at once and get that all taken care of before I do this. I've been driving with that alignment problem for three years and my wheel hasn't fallen off yet so I think I'll be ok.

And final thing is that when going over large transitions in the road, you know the kind that move the whole car up and down over them, kinda like RR crossings, when the car goes up, my front end goes CLUNK almost everytime. However if I try to duplicate it in the driveway by bouncing the front of the car up and down I get nothing. And I achieve far more movement than I would while driving. My guess is that its because I have what I believe to be ORIGINAL struts on the front so basically they're doing nothing and if figured it was the strutshiznitting their stops. But why can't I duplicate in when sitting still? Oh and no, it's not my engine clunking back down cause of mounts. The mounts are new and I checked to see if they were broken.

Thanks for reading my book and thanks in advance for answers. I'm still learning about suspensions.

multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

Reply #1 – February 10, 2012, 12:14:43 PM

Quote from: sarjxxx;380327

And second part that's puzzling me is suspension quirks. My rear end has a lot of lateral movement. If I stand on either side of the car by the trunk or next to the rear windows, or anywhere in between, I can rock the car back and forth a lot. And I don't mean roll the body back and forth, I mean lateral movement of the whole car side to side. Is this a normal function of the stock control arms to have this much movement? If so then CHE's are DEFINITELY in my future.

There's a whole lot of rubber and flimsy stamped steel holding your rear axle in the car. There's your lateral slop.

multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

Reply #2 – February 10, 2012, 12:50:05 PM

Steve, I've got a lot less lateral movement after swapping iin the CHE rca's on mine. Also sounds like you need to revamp/replace your suspension pieces.

I've used Energy Suspension throughout the front of mine, even down to the ball joint boots, upper strut mounts, etc. It's not that much more than stock replacement parts, and lasts, well, a long time, lol.

As far as the play in your driveshaft, if the car is sitting with the tires on blocks or ramps, then I'd look at the u-joints. If the rear tires are off the ground, it may be that the park pawl in the transmission is worn out, afraid I can't tell you a thing at all about replacing it, or if it's even possible.

If you're dead set on the 10" drums, but want an 8.8, ask Vinnie how he did his...seems like I recall he's running a TC rear with the big drums.

:)

multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

Reply #3 – February 10, 2012, 01:07:38 PM

I have the TC 8.8 with drums. Not a big deal, and for me, easier to swap it like that since some of the TC brake parts were bad. Yes, discs would be better, BUT, my car still stops just fine considering the kind of driving I do.

multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

Reply #4 – February 10, 2012, 10:54:33 PM

Quote from: Chuck W;380328

There's a whole lot of rubber and flimsy stamped steel holding your rear axle in the car. There's your lateral slop.

Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;380334

Steve, I've got a lot less lateral movement after swapping iin the CHE rca's on mine.

Yep that's what I thought. Looks like CHE's are definitely in my future.

Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;380334

Also sounds like you need to revamp/replace your suspension pieces.

I've used Energy Suspension throughout the front of mine, even down to the ball joint boots, upper strut mounts, etc. It's not that much more than stock replacement parts, and lasts, well, a long time, lol.

yep I think I'll start working on that when I replace the steering rack, and then when I go to TC sway bars, and see what I can do with the front control arms too while I'm at it. I'm honestly kinda afraid to work on the control arms cause I have no experience working with suspension springs and I don't want to injure myself so I'll see how that goes when I get to it. I guess the CHE's come with new bushings and all so that shouldn't be a problem right?

Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;380334

As far as the play in your driveshaft, if the car is sitting with the tires on blocks or ramps, then I'd look at the u-joints. If the rear tires are off the ground, it may be that the park pawl in the transmission is worn out, afraid I can't tell you a thing at all about replacing it, or if it's even possible.

It's not that the trans is worn out, because the play that I'm talking about is in the rear end with the trans in N. I don't know why I said it does it in P too. If its in P it doesn't move period. But the car will move back and forth b/c of the slop in the rear. If the e brake is on and the car doesn't move, I can rotate the driveshaft by hand about a quarter turn. And along the same lines, when switching from R to D and vice versa, there is always a substantial clunk generated because the driveshaft has so much play that when the trans want's to turn it from one direction to the other then when it goes through all that slop and and engages the rear it goes bang.

Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;380334

If you're dead set on the 10" drums, but want an 8.8, ask Vinnie how he did his...seems like I recall he's running a TC rear with the big drums.

I am in no way dead set on keeping the drums, I was just trying to get some opinions so that I can make an informed decision on whether or not I should be dead set on keeping them. The thing is, that my drums are old and oversized and need to be replaced, and my shoes are worn down nearly to the metal too. So really what I'm saying is, is it worth it to go ahead and replace the drums now, and just swap in a locking diff, or would it be in my best interest for both convenience, cost, and effectiveness to go ahead and hold out to do the whole swap?

Quote from: vinnietbird;380339

I have the TC 8.8 with drums. Not a big deal, and for me, easier to swap it like that since some of the TC brake parts were bad. Yes, discs would be better, BUT, my car still stops just fine considering the kind of driving I do.

See this is what I'm wondering. You say discs would be better, but how much better? I'll have to spend about $500 to get the TC rear in and up to working order, but then for about $70 I'm good to go with the drum brakes. But then I could be missing out on stopping power, (not to mention I don't get the cool "modern-ness" of rear discs:p). I'm just wondering if it's all worth it. But I guess if your's stops fine then it must be ok. I guess I just really need to get mine in proper order cause I really gotta push on mine to stop the car.

multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

Reply #5 – February 11, 2012, 02:29:40 AM

Well, unless you just WANT or NEED disc brakes in the rear NOW, I'd work over the drum set up, and locate a TC rear to fix as time/money allow, and when it's ready to swap, then put it all in.

OF course, with the clunking/movement you describe coming from the rear, sounds like your R&P may be pretty sloppy. Kind of a toss up, if you have the funds and can get an 8.8, that is probably what I'd do...

multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

Reply #6 – February 11, 2012, 01:47:34 PM

I could do a LOT for $500.00.

multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

Reply #7 – February 11, 2012, 05:57:09 PM

how hard is it to do a diff swap into the current axle?

multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

Reply #8 – February 11, 2012, 10:51:42 PM

Quote

And then the next thing is that when switching from D to R or vice versa, I occasionally get a ding in my rear axle that sounds literally like someone tapping a bell. I can also get it to do it if I rock the rear end of the car when it's parked. Why does it do that, and is it something that I really need to fix before my axle falls apart

STOP DRIVING YOUR CAR NOW!

I tried to read your post but i am very tired so i hope i read all the details before chiming in.
But......Im guessing you have a 7.5 inch rearend from the way your talking about swaps and parts, brakes etc etc.
STOCK 7.5 REAR ENDS LOVE TO ROCK THE DIFF CROSSPIN OUT.

I had the exact same issues you mentioned, literaly. sounds were going on for about 8 months, until one day on my way to work, trying to enjoy the last day of summer, the rear end locked up threw me into the dash and the car to the side of the road. After getting a tow, i took it home and pulled the diff cover. Looked like a grenade went off! The set screws that hold the crosspin in place sheared off letting the pin move back and fourth. As it wore back and fourth it gained enough clearence to now move up and down. (Thats where the "Pinging" noise comes from. So one day it got so bad the pin finaly bent, broke, and fell into the rest of the gears and kaboom : )

After it happened i called around to a few dealerships, shops, and asked my buddy to ask his old boss at ford racing and, sure enough, alot of 7.5's do this.

Im 95% sure thats what it is but you wont know until you pull the cover. I hope this works. Im gona go pass out now ; )

multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

Reply #9 – February 12, 2012, 05:48:40 PM

Woah that's intense. I've heard a lot about 7.5"s grenading, I guess now I know what and why.

Is this something I could prevent for the now time by pulling the cover and digging around in there? I would have absolutely no idea what I'm doing though, I might need some guidance...

multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

Reply #10 – February 13, 2012, 12:32:32 AM

IF it happens to be what im saying, in worst case scenario, you might be able to replace the set screw before it gets to bad. Problem is that if it sheared off youll need to drill that out to replace. But if the pin has already "wore" to much play in the slot its in, then its prolly to late and you will need to replace the diff unit itself. After mine happened, i just said screw it and decided to switch to an 8.8

Again, this might not be your problem but definatley check. It wasnt to fun having that happen miles away on my second day at my new job : )

multi parter - is TC rear upgrade really worth it, and LOTS of misc suspension q's

Reply #11 – March 23, 2012, 09:41:01 PM

Ok so I feel both like and idiot and relieved at the same time. As I was changing a flat tire today, I discovered the real cause of the "bell" sound I keep hearing. Not my diff at all. matter of fact its the left rear shock cover.